I totally agree, Ken.

Cables make as much of a difference as any other part of the playback chain. But what few people appreciate is that the same rules apply to making a recording or transferring and remastering cherished analog favorites. In 25 years of being a professional audio engineer, I have found that there is a right way to create a musically involving and lasting experience in a recording and this most definitely requires attention to Cabling, Power Quality, Vibration Control, and countless other audible variables that most "Engineers" would laugh about.

Don't forget to listen to the results, especially when recording engineers can create a true A vs. B test to prove it!

Cheers -

Jeremy

Kipnis Studios

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

Are you telling me recording studios spend that kind of money (per linear foot) on cables?

I find that hard to believe. I believe those who design such studios have budgets to comply with, and spend more on good quality and robust hardware, not esoteric . Hmm, but if you don't it seems you may be losing something in capturing every nuance of the live performance.

So how could I possibly 'regain' that performance by using cables even better than what you have?
A cable, like any other system component should be working optimally, but it can not ADD anything to what is already there.

Love to see the data to support such claims of esoteric cables over high quality reasonably priced.
There is none, because it is all subjective, and that has been proven time after time.

I once had the idea amny years ago to develop a line of interconnects, so I called a rather famous audio engineer that was in charge of the anaechoic chambers at the National Research Council in Ottawa, Canada (Floyd Toole, who recently retired from Harman International as Global Head of Acoustic Engineering). He talked me out of the idea, not because the business didn't work but because he had lots of experience doing blinded experiments where the so-called Golden Ears (from Stereophile, for example) couldn't tell the difference between a Pioneer receiver and a Mark Levinson amp, let alone two different cables. His point was not that everything sounded the same, but if it measured the same using sensible electrical parameters that it was indistinguishable by ear. The fact is that most cables are essentially identical in the audio spectrum, and therefore are extremely unlikely to be audibly different. Most differences were attributable to changes in voiume, not other factors.

To test this, have someone change the cables 10 or 20 times, rate the quality (without having them in the room to giveaway the identity through nonverbal cues) and then see if the results satisfy some test, like a chi-squared. You probably need to control for volume, although being able to do this accurately may be very difficult.

Ken, your experience almost directly mirrors my own. I too have had the privilege of sitting through the demo in Saco and, like you, I was floored! Although I must admit to having a difference of opinion about the power cables (try as the might, the Transparent boys just couldn't make it so I heard a difference) I couldn't agree more about the audio and video cables.

It is true that there is a lot of snake oil out there in the interconnects and cable market. I can say though, without reservation, that Transparent is the only line I have ever heard where, no matter what system the cables are on, every step of the way up the product line there is a significant improvement. The "bang-for-the-buck" quotient is definitely present in this line unlike any other I've ever heard.

Regards,

Daryl Wall
Sounds of Music
Calgary, Canada

www.sounds-of-music.com

it's called the placebo effect.

LHW, you bring up some excellent points. I have spent countless hours comparing different components and base components from those that have been modified.
Good power is essential, and even more so for high power amplifiers that not only require quality power cables, but clean power sources that have ample reserve. Quite often power can be 'choked' with power conditioners that work fine with low power components but do not meet the transient demands of amps.

In addition, timing and volume are still major factors when doing A/B comparisons. Volume for obvious reasons (though often neglected) and timing to not exceed the span needed for effective sensory memory.

Given all these factors, and likely more I've inadvertently glossed over, the differences between cable sets falls quite far down the list of important factors IMO.

While we may hear differences attributing a quality score based on what we hear can not be explained with science. What is a scientific fact is that beyond some obvious differences of good or bad, likes and dislikes, our senses are the least accurate and least reliable measurement instruments. Quite biased too... ;)

I've never found an audible measurable difference between cables.

I'm interested in doing an experiment anytime you want. We can chart FR charts and see if there is an audible difference between cable brands. We can also test lengths and various other ideas.

Just let me know. I'm game. Let get some pretty graphs to see what's really going on.

I always get a kick with these kind of articles. If these cable changed your system that much you must have had something wrong before you put them in. This is just another Snake Oil article. You should call stereophile and see if they have a job for you. I call shenanigans.

I completely agree that quality speaker wire and interconnects make a difference. I have been in the Custom Audio/Video field for almost 20 Years. There is nothing like listening to a properly set up and installed system. What most people don't realize is that the room is also a determining factor for what the system will sound like. You can spend countless dollars on equipment, but if the room is not properly set up it will sound no better than an inexpensive system.

I hope you got the job, Ken.
By the way, It's "lo and behold", not "low and behold". It's a biblical expression.

I replied to the Facebook posting of this article from my phone at work yesterday and liked the reply so much I copied it here.....

Oh bring it on guys!

I used to be like you once but as my system grew and evolved I learned cables do make a difference, and there is science in cable design. Just because we can't show the difference on an ocilliscope doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're nose can smell things in PPB (that Is parts per billion) that are so low they are undetectible to mass spec yet we still smell them. Same goes for cables. As for having the power company wire my home theater, I chose my own electrician and wire for the stereo which currently has five runs of 10 and two runs of 12 G Romex with 5 x 20 amp and 2 x 15 amp lines on their own panel. Might be overkill but I don't think so!

This topic is one of the most heated in our field, and my experience has PROVEN to me that cables do matter. If they don't to you then stay with your lamp cord and be happy. I for one swapped out my Transparent wires for some other cables this past week and the difference is major even considering the level of gear I run. I for one will never build a system again to any significant level without budgeting for cables, feel free to do as you see fit, but if you hear my rig and it sounds better than yours, you might not like the reason why!

Feel free to flame me!

CCC,

Why would I write for a magazine with as low a readership as Stereophile??

Ken - don't bash stereophile. While their print is far smaller than our readership their website is the biggest in the AV business. We'll catch them in 2010 but we aren't there yet.

CCC - you call shananagans? (sp) but you don't post your real name? That's pretty gutless.

Cables matter. If you are happy drinking 2 buck chuck or Nighttrain - I wont waste your time telling you about Sassacia or Peter Michael. For those who are looking for a better musical experience - cables can help you get there. Its not everything but its important.

This is one that Jerry and I can agree on. When I replaced my low level Monster speaker cables sourced from a spool and my Canare interconnects with DH Labs Q-10 it was like someone turned the lights on. What emerged was a room full of musicians where before it was a muffled closed in soundstage. I believe this was the result of optimally engineered cables and wires. But I also believe it becomes more snake oil driven as you move up to the higher esoterica. Then it becomes a game of the law of diminishing returns.

While I won't state outright that Dr. Taraszka is an idiot or thoroughly misguided, relying only on your own senses while evaluating something like cables is laughable at best, criminal at worst.

Being a guy who does recording for part of my living, I've experienced people thinking that something has changed/improved when I altered a setting on a channel only to have to tell them that nothing had changed because I forgot to take the effect/EQ off of "bypass" while I tinkered.

The mind is a very powerful thing. If it sees & thinks something is happening, it will believe that something is happening even when it's not. That is the cornerstone of the magician.

Here is a thought: Dr. Ken, if you want to prove that you aren't an idiot, don't be like every other asswipe who just wants us to believe that you've heard the holy grail - prove it.

Of all the things offered by the hi fi industry, cables and power conditioners are the easiest to measure to prove that they truly do anything. All you have to do is play a suite of tests & music on a piece of equipment and record it. Put the power conditioner in place or put the new cable inline and run the suite again. Then subtract one from the other and see what the difference is.

If you do that, you then can quantify what the new cable/conditioner does. Also, you could find out which equipment has proper output stages & power supplies and which don't. Of course, this means you actually have to do real work and may find out that your ears are no more golden than the average guy who listens to music. You might also find that they do nothing at all when you'd thought that they did.

Do that and I may regain some of the respect I used to have for you. Till then, I hope you enjoy the sweet smell of the flowers growing inside you colon. How are the sunsets in there?

jeff henning

I have read these articles since I was in UK in the early 1980's. I remember one article where the author suggested replacing the then multistranded cable with single-stranded 18 gauge wire. The net effect was that the thinner single wire created a band pass filter. The 18 gauge wire eliminated almost all of the bass in the output signal from the amp output to the speaker. Unless there is an impedance mismatch between the amp and the cable there is little to no effect that is audible.

Jeff,

I respectfully must disagree, and if you think I'm an idiot, so be it, but maybe we can compare transcripts sometime???

How did you fare in medical school??

Like I said in my initial follow up to this article, just because we don't yet know how to show the effects cables have doesn't mean they don't have one. My example of the sensitivity of your sense of smell is accurate. I feel it's ignorant (note I did not attack your intelligence, just your knowledge, a difference you seem oblivious to) of you to think your hearing is any less, and in fact some of your examples point to one factor in hearing, higher cortical interpretation (that's the minds effect FWIW!)

We can't detect odors that are clearly evident, so thinking we can detect everything we can hear is, again, ignorant.

I'd like to thank you for worrying about my colonic health, but I am not yet aged enough to require a colonoscopy, so I am still completely unaware of any floral growth or sunsets from in there, but I can blow a fart that will clear a room, and be utterly undetectable by any machine we currently have!

Dear Dr. Taraszka,
The discussion about "cables" should consider basic physics, and not only subjective audiophile considerations. This should take into account that sufficient quality is required, as well as the reactions of the connections-net to power variations, disturbances etc.

The question is: at what level quality of cables is sufficient, and nonsense begins. This may be very different according to the kind of connection.
- Power supply - need to avoid bottlenecks from the beginning, meaning home power installation. Deficient cables make a difference.
- Analogical signal - need to transmit accurately very small power variations therefore requiring possibly difficult fine-tuning.
- Digital signal - transmit digital sequences, with no influence on music if there is no data loss and transmission speed is sufficient. Digital data handling features of connected devices make a difference here as the equipment should detect and correct data transmission errors. Appropriate buffering support need also to be established. This is usual on computer communications, but not on end-user HiFi systems.

A comparison should start stating objective criteria used. HiFi end-users try to find cables of excellent quality, but also at average affordable prices. Without objective judgments, top prices may not improve quality proportionally.

Respectfully yours
M Rogowsky

Here's two balanced articles on quality wiring, (not necessarily expensive wiring).

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/5/6528.html

AVSforum.com has a lot of information on the topic, too, and most logical folks who've done A/B comparisons (not in a company's personal showroom, BTW), don't/can't hear a difference between $10 speaker wire and $1000 speaker wire, and with enough "n" points and subjects to make for statistical confidence.

All I know, is that if my $20 worth of low gauge speaker wire gets me to 99.9% of the "true" sound, then heaven knows I'd rather spend the $10,000 difference on more important stuff, like a better 1080p projector/screen, more Blu-Ray movies and some comfier seats... something I will actually significantly notice... it's all about "bang-for-the-buck", no matter how many bucks you got!

This is all like the $100,000 DVD players that plays worse than the Oppo Blu-Ray... shees, folks, get a grip on the realities, and don't let them play mind games on you...

Cheers,

Doc

Here's "religion" for you... incredibly well-made, awesome copper 12gauge speaker wire, that costs about $12 for a $50 roll, and capable of moving electrons equally well with no distortion as compared to any $10,000 cable.

Add your own custom connectors (and keep them clean from time to time):

Monoprice.com 12AWG CL2 Rated 2-Conductor Loud Speaker Cable

edit: 50foot roll for $14 (just googled it to verify)

Yet another article to help boost cable sales (and that's about it). It is true that a poor quality under gauged cable may have some audible effects on a system. It is false to believe that swapping out 14 gauge lamp cord would have as big an impact as changing speakers or amplifiers (components).

The room has the biggest impact on the sound, followed by the quality of the amplification, the quality of the speakers and the quality of the media and it's electronic playback device.

So given that, you are much better of performance wise and money wise adding room treatments first, even if you have a shoddy amp and speakers hooked up to an MP3 player. You would then look at upgrading the amplifier (or receiver) , the speakers and the playback device. After all of that you could then look at cables, but even then the gains would be very very minimal.

Blind tests have shown that high end interconnects are not discernible from coat hanger wire. There are also no blind or double blind tests that show clearly that high end esoteric cables are any better than lamp cord of the same gauge. There is also no conclusive scientific data (not performed by the manufacturer's marketting department) that prove their is any audible difference. The findings of one person and their wife are inconclusive. I also assume that the inclusion of "the wife" stereo types her into the lump of other wives who are completely non-audiophile and minus the golden ears some audiophiles claim to have.

The fact that some audiophiles giggle at the mention of Bose, yet go out and spend ludicrous amounts of money on cables is just too humorous.

"I respectfully must disagree, and if you think I'm an idiot, so be it, but maybe we can compare transcripts sometime???

How did you fare in medical school??"

What's your area of practice Ken? You don't have your doctorate in Engineering or Physics. Are you an audiologist? Are you a neurosurgeon specializing in human hearing or vision? Since you're using your education to your credit, how does it make you an expert in cable testing or audio in general?

Transparent should be sending you a gift basket for all that free advertising.

FWIW, cables tests are meaningless unless they are double-blind.

Doug - I think you would more happy at the AVS Forum. We don't waste our time bickering over the validity of people's doctorate degrees around here.

Moreover, Bob Hodas, who is the leading acoustician on the planet and the person who tunes the absolute biggest recording studios and home theaters - backs up Ken. Even his Meyer SIM system can't measure everything we can hear.

Beyond Bob Hodas, people like Bob Stuart - the co-founder of Meridian - knows that there are elements you can hear that you can't measure.

People who buy audio by looking at a graph ONLY are truly missing out.

Well, Doug if you are so interested, funny you mention physics and engineering......

I am an anesthesiologist, but en-route there I worked towards a major in acoustic physics and minor in electrical engineering, this along with my pre-med requirements, all completed in the allotted four years, and with a GPA of 3.82 in my core classes. Yes, I took sick loads of courses, how many of you took three dimensional vector calculus as an elective? Well, I did, and I aced it.

Do any of my degrees make my ear better? No.

Years of being an audio geek and attending countless live performances have trained my ear to know what is right and discern the subtle nuances that make a performance or system go from good to great.

Just to be clear, an audiologist is not a physician, and no neurosurgeon specializes in hearing, some neurologists do, this last bit is just for your own education.

i think these comments would make some atheists cringe at the facts of unmeasurable things being there like god..lol but on cables....i *know* power cables are very important as power conditioning in my room makes everything transient not to mention the quality of bass. but, power cable has to transfer electrons ....just as speaker cable..end point
when it comes to signal cable yes it does make a difference if your buying crap connectors with poor conductivity..but the same principle of good wire and conductivity remains the same...monster cable sounds wonderful but my home built rca's do just as good. Ken i can't doubt you , but i have to say transparent would really be scammers for using oxidised cable....*idk* words from 17YO upcoming audiophile and college student..
regards,
brandon.

wow do you really expect anyone to give a damn about a single word you spew after articles such as this? credibility, i guess you dont' really value it, or perhaps all your lauded educational credentials really don't add up to more than an ability to follow orders without question. i love how you bring up your education, to apishly pound your own chest in defense, then when called on your own BS, you name drop everything you possibly can, then downplay any significance as if it weren't you who attempted to bring it up in the first place. what a joke. talk about true transparency. shills. nothing but shills. I for one find that knowing the emperor is really wearing no clothes to enhance my audiophile endeavours much more than any over hyped/shilled snake oil could possibly hope to achieve. thank you for watering down the hobby with more drivel.

Mark,

You need to reread this thread.

I brought out my academic credentials as I was attacked as an idiot, and this is the only factual data I have to show otherwise, and it was attacks on me that led to this data being presented, not to apishly pound my chest. . As for name dropping, I have done none.

If you think I 'follow orders without question' then you have no idea who I am and I will leave it at that!

Ken,

While I will agree that well built cables sound better than the throw away pieces that come in the box with many store shelf bought products. The difference is sadly not there to justify spending thousands of dollars more on a "well built cable", especially one that costs thousands vs. another one that is a fraction of the price. It's a poor return on ones investment. I have also heard many a discussion about expensive cables and the differences of how they are "perceived" by notable individuals as Floyd Toole (PhD) and Bill Whitlock. When you can learn to bend the laws of physics and you have an electrical engineering degree, then I believe it's time to open this discussion again.

As for Jeremy's comments on reduction of vibration and clean power they are fully justified.

However Jeremy next time your at an AES conference, an IEEE conference or for that matter how about CEDIA 2010, please present a course or a full paper for discussion about how one high end cable sounds better than another. I am sure that Bill Whitlock (who was in charge of electronic development engineering for EMI/Capitol Records for quite some time) not to mention Floyd Toole would have a field day with your claims about cables.

Having done cable swaps on client's systems without their knowledge (but with their permission) to see if they could tell, they have yet to hear the difference.

Sorry, no disrespect, but it's all about science.

Ken,

I find it incredible that you are audacious enough to compare the measurability of odors, which are particulate-based, to pressure waves or analog signals. For all of the "credentials" you have cavalierly spouted, you should know that technology for measuring particulates is far, far behind that of pressure transducers (i.e. microphones) and analog signal measurement in conductors. It is measurable FACT that the difference between two like-gauged copper wires will not affect sound in any way. It is also certain that human hearing is the weakest of the senses, and our pressure transducers (i.e. ear drums) are actually quite inferior to many man-made pressure transducers available to the masses.

It is obvious that you are grasping for straws to defend yourself against the many who have refuted your silly and unscientific article. It is also very disappointing that someone who claims to be as educated as yourself must attempt to defend a wholly untrue and unscientific discussion.

Charles

Charles,

I have already said this is one of the oldest and most heated arguments in high end audio. What you deem 'fact' are fiction to many, enjoy your zip cord, I'll keep my cables, and will enjoy them as well!

Happy listening!

Of course it is subjective. So is everything else that you experience. Can you positively discuss anything outside your own subjective experience? You can only measure inductance, capacitance and resistance - as far as wires are concerned. You can't measure what a person hears.
Open your mind and listen more. After you hear the differences (which you most likely will) - you then will make value judgments. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that question.

Peace

You're basically claiming there is an electrical property of a conductor heretofore undiscovered and currently unmeasurable. You're claiming that everything being taught in universities is incomplete and every formula and calculation related to electrical circuits is flawed. Have you contacted any physicists to let them know about your discovery? lol

Steve,

I love your post! Yep, it attacks me, but I love it! I too LOL!

You must, or should be an attorney as your deductive logic is spot on. I of course said none of the statements you made, and would deny them in a deposition, but..... you would be logically correct to make those assumptions from my postings. DAMN, I always knew text had it's problems, but never realized they are the same as depositions, guess that was a step of logic I should have easily made, but hadn't until now, and thank you for that!

No, I haven't contacted any physicists, and don't plan to. Thank you for the post, it was most enjoyable for me to read, and taught me a good lesson in the process!

Ken

I'm highly skeptical, but I must say that the one thing this article has prompted me to do is to drop in to a retailer of high-end cabling, like Transparent I guess, in the near future. I have ULTRA sensitive hearing, and I predict I will hear zero difference.

Matt,

I used to feel the same way you do, and my eyes were opened, maybe yours will be too! Good Luck!

Ken, why don't you perform a double blind experiment, between your special cable, and ordinary 12 G twisted pair, or whatever size cable is the same gauge as the speacial cable. Resistance of the cable has been shown to affect speaker performance, and will change volume of the signal. If you match the resistance of the two cables and perform a double blind experiment, you can show the validity of your claims. Since you have such impeccable educational credentials, I trust you know that you will not know which cables you are listening to; actually nobody will know until the results are tabulated.

Show us that you, that's plural- your wife and golden eared friends should all participate, can really hear this, and you can make a great column about it. Considering the amount of negative feedback you are receiving, you should take this seriously.

Has anyone ever thought how they design high end cables? Think about it...What will they use as a reference? It has to be something they can measure unless they have one person with golden calibrated ears they trust to make the final judgment that X sounds better than Y.
But how do you start? Let's see, this time I'll the wind this conductor CCW and the other one CW. I will allow 'n' for the amount of spacing for capacitance...etc. etc. etc...
And there are a good 3 dozen hi end cable manufacturers. Do they go to a special school that gives the basics of high end cabling construction to start with?

If indeed, high end cables 'can be' significantly better than 'standard' cables, there must a recipe that works for all mfgs and what they produce is simply their own variety based on some 'high end' standard.
Or there are 36 recipes and they all work good enough to sound better to at least those who buy their respective cables.
Sorry, if I come across as sarcastic and cynical, but while we can improve electronics by using improved components and good circuit design, how do you do a cable? Maybe a lot of experimentation, and then some panel deciding what sounds best? No wonder they cost so much. All that experimenting must take up a load of budget. I think you also need to evaluate how cables are actually manufactured, and what could possibly make one sound better than another beyond just using good materials, excellent workmanship and cut-away drawings on glossy ad pages.
But if you don't want to question it that's fine too, because you can always say that no one can prove it does not sound better too you.