Thanks for the review. You mention that no other player you've heard of comes with a calibration disc, but later you mention that you acquired a BDP-83SE for comparison. The BDP-83 (both stock and SE) come with *two* calibration discs (Spears & Munsil for video and an AIX disc for audio).

Comments are back on the Lexicon BD-30 Review....

This weekend, this review was inundated with anonymous flame posts that we believe was the work of a competing AV company designed to smear the reputation of Lexicon. Many of these flames were written by users hiding under anonymity and had hurtful, factually incorrect statements that do not meet our content guidelines and were deleted.

Today, we have changed the way you post comments to HomeTheaterReview.com meaning that you can use your Facebook account and or create an HTR account. I have also turned the comments back on for this review.

We apologize to those who thought that they were censored. Readers who know HomeTheaterReview.com know that we are strong defenders free speech.

We encourage readers to post constructive, enthusiastic and opinionated comments on this and any other review. Disagree with the review, ask questions, talk about other players or even disagree with HTR and or Dr. Taraszka's conclusions. What we will not tolerate is personal attacks, professional attacks on brands, HTR and or industry people and or overall flames.

I know this has been a hot topic. I hope that you understand our position and keep the discussion moving forward in a positive and lively direction.

Here is a link to the Audioholics article that started the controversy.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone

While a well respected website, I think that it is important to note that Audioholics is a review publication AND a store. In their store they sell the Oppo player.

I also want to add to the discussion that I spoke with Harman about their player.

They sell the Lexicon to a completely different channel than Oppo does. Lexicon is sold to high end stores and installers. Oppo sells finished products to end users direct via the Internet as well as to MANY AV companies as a supplier. Harman is one of them. I believe Theta is another. i think there are others as well.

Harman claims that nearly 40 percent of the parts of the unit are American and assembled in their Elkhart, Indiana plant where Crown is made as well as some of the Mark Levinson line such as the No. 53 power amps.

Lastly,

A lot of people are outraged at the idea that a company would buy and repackage a transport to be marketed under their brand and sold through their distribution. I think that its more common that many people think. Most AV companies don't have the R&D to build their own transport or AV preamp so they go to OEM companies to buy the parts. They might tweak something here and or there but for the most part it could be very similar to other products on the market.

A Mercedes C-class is built on the same platform as a Dodge Seibring. A Porsche Cayenne is built on the same chassis the VW Toureag. Smaller Lexus have a lot in common with Toyota Camrys. My Dad's new Maserati Granturissimo has many of the same key parts as they Ferrari F430.

For those who don't want the upmarket chassis and for those connecting via HDMI - the Oppo is a KILLER solution for a LOT less money. For those who want a more fancy chassis and build quality - there is the Lexicon. Let the customers decide.

PS: we have an Oppo BD-83SE review being fact checked now and we also have the NuForce mod of the unit in for review. Those should go live in the coming weeks and months.

Cool so if one wants a nicer casing they should get the Lexicon. This seems sensible Jerry and its great to get such a balanced perspective. Seems like a nice player and a nice site you have here.

Oppo said that Harman's engineers helped them make the video section of their player better.

They also said that THX helped to make the unit better because of the Lexicon project.

Those changes have been made to the Oppo player as well but to suggest that Harman didn't do anything to improve the player is factually incorrect.

I could understand using the Oppo as a transport and making several changes/improvements then Lexicon calling it theirs, most companys use parts made by others in their completed product, but to simply take an entire player complete with chassis throw it in a nicer case add your name on the splash screen and call it good then charge 7 times as much is a shameful thing for a company such as Lexicon. It isnt like this is two Wal-mart $49.95 DVD players using the same parts and suppliers. Also for the reviewer to say that there is a visual difference in blacks and color palletes is frankly shameful as well they are the same player other than the upgraded analog section on the SE version tested.

REGARDS SNOW

Jerry,

Amidst all of your posturing, you have failed to address the two very major points that were brought to light by the Audioholics review.

1 - Looking at the pictures it's easy to see that the Lexicon is literally an Oppo wrapped in Lexicon clothing, right down to the original Oppo chassis. Performance measured identically, and even the menu structure is identical save for a couple non-performance related items. Given this, it's hard to see where Ken saw any real performance differences aside from placebo effect. Yet even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, you are sticking to your guns and insisting that the Lexicon offers better performance over the Oppo, which simply doesn't pass the common sense test. Hypothesizing about possible improvements doesn't make it so, and frankly Lexicon's inability to point out a single actual difference between the units that would yield different/better performance has not helped their/your case.

2 - Although the Lexicon is supposedly THX certified, the analog-outs on the unit fail to crossover the bass at the THX standard of 80Hz. I won't re-hash that issue as it's covered extensively in the Audioholics article.

Ultimately we are all human and we make mistakes. Given the evidence, it appears that Ken made one in reporting a performance difference - and hence justifying the large price differential - where none exists. If solid evidence is found that supports a possible performance difference between both machines, people will be open to it. If someone slaps a 700% price increase and a different shell on a piece of equipment, it's very fair for any potential buyer to ask for objective performance differences that justify the price. It's also fair for those reading a review to question the results when no objective data is published to support those results.

I'm looking forward to hearing your direct answers regarding each of these issues.

If what is published in the Audioholics article is substantially correct, it is indeed disappointing that Lexicon made mostly/only cosmetic changes to the Oppo platform. My personal evaluation of the Oppo player in my system indicated that while it is decent, it's not quite as good as its proponents make it out to be. An unmodified Oppo is perhaps worth Oppo's asking price, but it's certainly not worth Lexicon's asking price unless there are a whole lot of changes that have been hidden from observers so far.

At the same time, it's been very disappointing to read the many mean-spirited, spiteful, and downright vicious comments and remarks that have been posted about people who are only indirectly involved in this controversy. The web allows for the free flow of information, but it also allows people to feel that they can expose their hatefulness and neuroses without consequence. Polite discourse and civil differences of opinion seem to have vanished from our society. That's very sad.

I hope you will continue to allow polite criticism and divergent opinions. I certainly can't fault you for summarily removing all previous remarks due to certain individuals' inability to refrain from unleashing their inner jackass.

I don't agree with some of the purely personal attacks made against various people. However, HTR seems to have lumped anyone that offered objective criticism in with a few negative people as a way of avoiding several pointed, valid questions. Yes, we underestand the personal attacks were uncalled for. However that doesn't alleviate Lexicon, HTR, or Ken from explaining some of the rather glaring disparities that have been pointed out. The only situation in which those explanations can't be given is if there is something to hide, which I hope isn't the case!

Rex,

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about discourse. From Newt's "Contract with America" to "You are either with us - or against us" from our former Commander in Chief to Rush Limbaugh and many others - the idea of being able to discuss differing opinions is seemingly gone. Everything is black and white in a world loaded with shades of gray. In the old days of Washington politics - Senators could battle it out all day on the hill and then go pound a few scotches while discussing the issues of the day.

Nobody is giving Harman credit for helping Oppo make the player better. Oppo said its true to me DIRECTLY today. THX helped as well. Both on the video front.

Thanks for your post.

Jerry

Hog,

Ken has the flu and but wants to post when he is feeling a little better.

As for his opinions - I am sticking with them. His experience reviewing nearly 12 Blu-ray player and having owned or reviewed ALL of the best AV preamps from the Anthem D2v to the Meridian 861v4 to the Krell Evo 707 to the Classe SSP-800 gives him insight that I think if you look into the more audiophile reviewers - they simply don't have. If you don't want to agree with Ken - that's cool with me and likely Ken. Some of the stuff Ken told me (and note: I didn't do the review) was that the player is notably more quiet. Its built better. The menus were better or easier (as I remember what he told me). Once again, I will allow him to comment.

As for the analog output, I have been told no player really does proper bass management from the analog outs. Its for more audiophile use. The old Outlaw ICBM was a good solution in the OLD days of DVD-Audio but today - you just use HDMI.

People attacked Ken as a reviewer. They attacked him as a doctor. They attacked our publication which has gone from ZERO to 303,000 monthly readers (source: Google Analytics) in 18 months. They attacked Peter Tribeman. They attacked everyone. Is anyone questioning the other publications involved? Audioholics.com SELLS the Oppo and not the Lexicon. That is fact.

Regarding pulling the posts - I made the decision and stick by it. I should have had more stringent standards for posting but I wanted more comments to get the publication going. I didn't expect the cyber-terrorism, libel and brand bashing that we saw over this issue. Please note: I changed the technology with in 48 hours (over a weekend) and reopened the review to posts once people couldn't just make up an email address. Flaming like a loser might be OK on some forums but not on HomeTheaterReview.com. I am sure you understand that.

Jerry,

You didn't directly respond to HogPilot's 2 points in the post from 5:14PM.

I have some points of my own I would like addressed:

1) On AVSForum, you said once again that Ken says in his review that the Oppo is sufficient for most users...where does he say that? Please be specific.

2) On AVSForum, you mentioned the THX certification as if it still applies. Please address the facts that the Lexicon does not pass THX benchmarks and Lexicon took the THX certification info off their website.

Please address my 2 points and HogPilot's 2 points...I really would like answers to these.

Thanks,

Chris

Firstly, are you saying that you talked to Oppo and that they told you that there are in fact performance-related improvements in the BD-30 over the BDP-83SE? Aside from the claim that the Lexicon is quieter (which isn't out of the realm of possibility since they wrapped the Oppo in another skin), I'd like to know what specifically Lexicon improved as compared to the BDP-83SE to warrant the 700% price increase.

Again, given the overwhelming evidence that indicates that the Lexicon and the Oppo are physically identical save some aesthetic differences, it's hard for anyone to swallow that that the former still outperforms the latter without some sort of objective data pointing to why. That could be measurements, that could be proof of parts being different. But making claims that fly in the face of a significant body of facts and then asking people to simply "believe it because we say so" has been never been a basis for good reporting. I'm sure you understand that.

I was pretty sure that Ken made it clear that for many users the Oppo is perfectly reasonable. For those looking for a better build quality - there is the Lexicon as an option. If it isn't in the review - he has told it to me on the phone. Nevertheless, I said it here.

I was told by Harman TODAY that the unit passed THX Certification. I also spoke with Oppo about what they learned from THX who has made their spec much harder these days for video and Blu-ray.

Note: I didn't write the review so I am going on what people have told me on a number of these issues. My sources include Harman, Oppo and Ken himself.

Jerry,

If Harmon did in fact help the Oppo engineers make their player better, and the changes were made to both players, doesn't that make them identical? Aren't we back where we started, with Lexicon putting a different case on a stock Oppo and making no other changes before marking it up 700%?

Hog,

Reviews are subjective. If you don't see the value - Don't buy the unit. Its that simple. You are the consumer and you have the POWER!

We don't do measurements. Didn't when I owned AVRev.com and don't at HomeTheaterReview.com. Its been our editorial model for years and has served me and my business well. Road and Track might like the BMW M5 better than the Mercedes E63 but I recommend you test drive both before signing a lease. Our goal is to help you get some insight into the highs and lows of the product. If I wanted to close you on the product - i would open a STORE and demand 50 points margin. But then again - I could open a store on HTR.... oh wait - that might make us less credible wouldn't it? :)

Ken,

Speaking of libel, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the fact that Audioholics sells Oppo's equipment and not Lexicon's - what are you implying? In and of itself the fact is inconsequential unless you're insinuating that Audioholics is purposely skewing the results in the favor of Oppo (or against Lexicon) in order to benefit themselves. I can't find any other reason for you to continually illicit that fact.

Since you're backing Ken, how do you explain the differences that he reported given that every single piece of evidence available points to the Lexicon and the Oppo being functionally identical? All you (or Lexicon) needs to produce is some sort of evidence of functional difference and this particular portion of the debate could be easily quelled. In this case Ken has made a significant statement that isn't borne out by a single piece of evidence or measurement available, yet instead of providing supporting evidence people are being asked to simply trust him and HTR. Making an unsupportable claim and then burying your head in the sand afterwords in an attempt to avoid valid criticism is just poor reporting. I'm sure you understand that.

I am not saying the unit is identical but they are close. Nobody is denying that. There are some perks to the Lexicon and you pay a LOT for those.

My Dad's Maserati has the engine, transmission and frame of a Ferrari F430 for about 1/2 the price. He likes it better (in fact he LOVES the car) and who is to say that he is wrong.

Its up to you where you spend your money.

The Oppo is sold into the direct and OEM channel. The Lexicon is sold to retailers and installers. Two very different ways of selling product.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that all evidence shows the units are functionally identical. You're claiming that the Lexicon is better. You're not being asked to re-iterate that claim. You're being asked to list the actual differences that make the Lexicon better, which is a completely reasonable request. If you can't do that, your claim is without merit.

For as much as you've touted it, this supposed list of benefits/improvements has proven more elusive than finding the wreckage of Amelia Earhart's aircraft.

Hog,

I am going to dinner. I don't have more time to go back and forth with you more tonight. I am sorry.

Re: Audioholics.com - I cite the fact that they are a store because it speaks to their motives as to why they do what they do. They benefit from selling Oppos (no shipping costs - a good deal) not the Lexicon. I have no beef with Audioholics.com directly its just that they are crossing what I believe to be an important line for a publication. Amazon does reviews but never alleges to be anything other than a store.

Ken will speak more as to the benefits of the player. I think he did quite a bit of that in the review.

Did any of the other reviews test program material? Wouldn't it be funny if the Lexicon (and or the Oppo) made the best sound and picture out there yet the Geek Squad from the forums went crazy over it?

Moreover, do you think that MORE or LESS high end AV will get sold if so-called exposes are done on who makes what platforms for who? Projectors are often rebadged. AV preamps are made by VERY FEW companies with software changes being the main difference. Transports are clearly a hot topic.

What's wrong with the forum geek squad is what my mentor, Mark Levinson, taught me more than a decade ago about why audiophiles SUCK. They are exclusive. They are snobs. They love the gear more than the equipment.

Gotta go. Have a great night.

Copy - you have no list of differences. If you had such a list, publishing it would have been infinitely easier than continually dancing circles around my very direct questions. I guess the "forum geek squad" (what happened to no name calling?) will have to look elsewhere for meaningful reviews based in actual fact.

I'll also forward your comments on to Audioholics as I'm sure they'll want to respond to your unsupported claims that they're lying in order to benefit financially. The irony is that review sites like yours rely on advertising money that comes from the manufacturers whose gear they assess.

First off the not so well hidden insinuations that Audioholics is doing this in order to run down lexicon to pump up oppo sales is petty and quite frankly prepostorous, I can buy an Oppo directly from Oppo themselves no need for Audioholics for this, and I own Lexicon gear the market that Lexicon gear appeals to is different as you yourself said they are not competing for sales.

You speak about improvements that Lexicon made but say you dont do measurements and to date the only proof of any measuring shows their identical audio and video wise. You speak of better build quality the only difference in that area is strictly visual the outside case, sorry but that doesent add up to 700% increase in price. Getting to the THX issue if indeed the BD-30 passes testing for THX then so should the Oppo they simply are no different, in fact you state here in your own words that

Quote:Oppo said that Harman's engineers helped them make the video section of their player better.

They also said that THX helped to make the unit better because of the Lexicon project.

Those changes have been made to the Oppo player as well.

If indeed these changes whatever they are have been applied to both players then the Oppo should pass the stringent THX testing as well, but for some odd reason only the Lexicon got the THX stamp of approval, Something stinks here!! I have a feeling a lawsuit or two may well be in the works.

REGARDS SNOW

Jerry I think it's good that you put the comments back up so quickly and I agree that "flaming" really should not be tolerated anywhere. I also think though that people should be able to disagree constructively, that's one of the big advantages of being able to discuss an article.

I have been following this story closely and have done a lot of digging to find out as much as I can so here is my take. And since people on this site seem to like throwing around their qualifications - I have a BS and MS in mechanical engineering so I'd like to think I'm no dummy at least. What really has people fired up here is the blatant price gouging on the part of Lexicon. Yes rebadging is common, that is nothing new, and if Lexicon had taken the Oppo innards, put them inside their fancy case and charged say 700 bucks for it? people would probably be fine with that, get the Oppo if you want value or the Lexicon or if you willing to spend a little more and want a fancy case, no big deal. It's when they charged 3000 more for it that people got really steamed. And they show some real guts (or idiocy more likely), by evidently not changing a single thing on the Oppo, as yet they are unable to demonstrate that they have.

Now, perhaps they did have some input on the design of the Oppo unit, so what? They are still charging 3500 for a player that is functionally identical to a 500 dollar Oppo. For one thing I find it unsurprising that they don't say what it is they did exactly, for all we know they asked Oppo to change the screw pattern on the bottom so it would match up with their 3000 dollar case better, we simply don't know. But because they're charging so much we should just assume it must have been something pretty special, right? That is how some of these audiophile companies work, snakeoil, if it's really expensive then it "must" be good. Likewise they are currently claiming that they did change the internals to improve them and justify their price increase but to date they have provided zero documentation to back this claim up. Not a single graph, schematic, photograph, chart, nothing, not one thing. Yet they must have done a lot one would assume, because they are charging 3000 bucks more for it, strange that it's taking them so long to document it in any way...

I think you are right that this is a product clearly aimed a different market than the Oppo and lets be clear about what that market is. This is for people who are paying 30,000 bucks for a custom install and simply check the box for the 3500 dollar Lexicon blu-ray player without doing any research to determine if it's worth it. They just assume because the salesman tells them it's good and they trust the reputation of the brand that it must be good. Anyone who does any research will realize what a ripoff it is.

Finally I have to touch on the quality of this review. I want to say first that I really am not trying to flame and am being as polite as possible. I'm sure Ken is a nice guy and smart but his review is nothing but fluff. All he did was plug the unit into his system, play around with it for a bit and then write his opinions. How about actually testing this unit? Use some actual equipment, meters, scopes, etc. Tear the thing apart and tell us about the hardware inside, why this chip is better, how it compares to other units, etc. The fact is, again, while he may be a smart guy, he has no particular training or experience in this area, he's a medical doctor. So while he can write some fancy words about a product when it comes down to serious analysis he falls on his face. He also seems to be biased, I think he is predisposed to saying expensive products are better than cheaper ones, even if, as in this case, there is no difference performance wise. Consumers read reviews to get unbiased opinions, not someone telling them a 3500 dollar player is the better one when it's really the same as a 500 dollar one. This is where the readers have been let down by this article. I can tell you if I spent 3500 bucks of my hard earned money because I trusted Kens review I would be furious if I found out later I'd been basically hoodwinked.

Jerry, I find you comment on audiophiles insulting. I thought we are the group of client Lexicon and you need our support most. My room is full of high end gear, but after all this, i’ m filling my pockets with more common sense than money. It’s a wakeup call for all of those caring about the value of their audio gear. We can go to 100 comments here, without having any real questions answered. I hope Lexicon will provide some answers.

To Hog - you are looking for an argument and to twist my words. Make yourself happy. I spoke of Audioholics.com's motives. I NEVER called them a liar. They are a respected site.

To the guy offended by me bashing audiophiles. Sorry. Work in the business for a little while. Floor say a pair of Wilson WATT Puppies. Do the demo. Handhold the geek who thinks he can buy them for 12 hours of your time. Then find out he bought them out of state. Then tell me why you wouldn't have been better spending the 12 hours working on earning the business of a top level designer, architect etc.... I've been on both sides of the deal and I know. Its not a good feeling.

Lastly, I may not be able to answer EVERYONE's posts here. Its using too much of my time during the day (and night) I am happy however that the tone is more respectful and professional EVEN if people don't disagree. Please keep up the conversation.

All the best!!!!

Jerry

Hello Jerry,

You state that the lexicon is different from the oppo.
Can you please list the differences.

Thank you,
Nathan

Jerry,

I have twisted no one's words. You said that Audioholics has a specific motive in what they've said because they sell Oppos and not Lexicons. What is their motive, and what is it that they're doing to attain said motive?

The MOST commonly asked question here is for you to enumerate the functional differences between the two players. Ken said there is a difference, you're backing him - so what accounts for the difference?

Those are two simple, direct questions. They require simple, direct answers. Trying to get those answers from you thus far has been like trying to squeeze water from a rock. Why are you so reticent to answer them, unless you're the one with ulterior motives?

The Oppo didn't receive THX certification because Oppo didn't apply for the cert. Seeing as how the Oppo and the Lexicon are functionally identical the Oppo would certainly receive the cert if it were submitted.

Very interesting so far that you havent responded to any of my comments here yet. heres a few more observations for you to chew on.

You stated in an earlier post here that....... For most the Oppo is the way to go and Ken says that. The price is killer and the performance is STRONG. I am putting one in my pretty serious RIG in the next few weeks. The Lexicon is for someone who wants something a little more. A little better build quality, better internal parts, a billion dollar company's engineering department behind the ODM of the product.

Why if indeed the Lexicon is better built and has better internal parts and offers a better picture in Ken's own word better blacks and a color palette arent you putting the Lexicon in your rig instead?

You said earlier that the reason why Lexicon used the Oppo transport is because Most AV companies don't have the R&D to build their own transport or AV preamp so they go to OEM companies to buy the parts but you say above that they are a billion dollar company.

Please explain to me if Lexicon used better internal parts what those parts may be? And if Indeed the Lexicon BD-30 is a better player why are you choosing to put the Oppo in as you say your own rig?

Since you are championing both Ken's review and the Lexicon player itself it seems to me that if these statements were actually factual I would want to have the Lexicon in my rig.

REGARDS SNOW

Jerry is never gonna respond to direct questions...that much is obvious.

I have a suggestion...someone make a post listing very briefly the specific questions that have not yet been answered...then no one post anything after that until Jerry responds...it's the random minutae in other posts that Jerry is focusing on...so don't give him any...it just distracts from getting him to man up and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

I don't think Jerry is going to engage in endless discussion on this subject. Basically he's said his piece and he's sticking to it. I do commend him for at least putting the comments back up and (so far at least), not deleting any, even though some people seem to be pushing the limits of what could be considered polite discussion.

Lexicon relies on a few things to sell this product, one is their name, which has a history of quality, another is price. Most people that buy this are going to assume that because it costs so much it must be a lot better than a 500 dollar player. Even though they may not be able to articulate what the difference is, even if you were to do a blind side by side comparison and show them there is no difference they still want to believe it is better. The high price is simply part of a marketing tool, not a reflection of quality or value.

This scam is perpetuated by fluff sites (not naming names) who drink the kool-aid and fawn over their high priced gadgetry. These people may call themselves audiophiles, but what exactly does that mean? Is there a test to become an audiophile? Is there a course of study you can complete at a university after which you become an audiophile? No, this is more of a self applied term, if you say you're an audiophile you're an audiophile, just like if you say you're a wine connoisseur then you are, it's a subjective term. So these self styled "experts" who have dubious or non-existent qualifications play around with absurdly overpriced electronics and throw around fancy lingo like "cryogenically treated" but never do they do any quantitative analysis. It's all subjective listening and viewing. They fall for the same fancy marketing and regurgitate it to consumers who, unfortunately, may be swayed into parting with their money for products that are simply not worth it.

I respect Jerrys' right to do essentially whatever he wants on his site. He can take whatever opinion he wants and delete comments as he sees fit. But it is disappointing that in this instance he is unwilling to call a spade a spade. He still is defending the Lexicon unit as a reasonable option for those that want the better case. "Hey, you can buy this Mercedes for 100,000 bucks, OR you can buy this other Mercedes that has a different paintjob and wheels, it's exactly the same otherwise but costs 700,000 bucks. What? there's no trick here, the consumer can decide which they want". This is basically his stance. As best I can figure to admit you are wrong would be to lose face, and the longer you drag it out the more embarrassing it would become.

Even though Lexicon told Audioholics they would submit a written response to their article it's been 5 days and they are still silent apparently. Though they insist they improved upon the Oppo unit. I imagine there are discussions going on at Lexicon at this moment about how best to proceed given the bad press they are getting. I see a few possible outcomes. One would be to stick to their head in the sand, stand by their product and continue selling it, taking the hit to their reputation amongst the community. Another option would be for them to lower the price to a more reasonable level, say 700 bucks or so? But to do that would be admitting the previous price was a blatant ripoff. It would also put a lot of reviewers in a bad light who had fawned over it at the previous price point. A third option, which would be their best bet in my opinion, would be to quickly issue a revised unit, a BD-30 SE perhaps, that includes some of their own technology. Then they can claim to have added some value and save face.

Aaron,

Thanks for your well-thought out post. I think you make a lot of good points, however I do think you're being a little generous with your Mercedes analogy as it applies to Jerry/Ken's position. I think a better analogy is that Mercedes is offering a new car for $350,000 that they claim is "based" on a Dodge that costs $50,000. Ken drives the Mercedes and the sport edition of the Dodge and says he feels that the Mercedes performed better. It's then discovered that ther Mercedes IS the stock Dodge, with different body panels, but Ken still says that the Mercedes performs better due to special, unnamed "mods" and Jerry backs him without providing so much as a hint as to what these mods are.

The tangential discussion of "polite discourse" that's arisen has frustrated me somewhat. Jerry talks about keeping the discussion "positive and lively," yet he shows a complete lack of respect for anyone here who has asked a tough question by glossing over it or trying to divert the discussion with irrelevant analogies and fluff. Don't whine about discussions turned sour when you (not "you" personally Aaron, but "you" Jerry) don't have the basic respect to answer reasonable, applicable questions that are raised in the course of the conversation. Even if Jerry told us that he's in contact with Lexicon and attempting to find out what makes the BD-30 special/different as opposed to the BDP-83SE, at least it would show that he cares enough to find more information for his readers when it's lacking. That is, if he thinks he's in the business of pushing out product-related information that pertinent to the end-user.

Respectfully, I can't keep up with the pace of comments on this story. I am VERY GLAD that the comments are from REAL USERS (not people trying to hijack the credibility of Peter Tribeman from Atlantic and Outlaw and formerly NAD) and beyond.

Ken Taraszka is going to comment a little more on the topic very soon. I hope you find this useful.

Has everyone seen the Blu-ray 3.0 story? Its the lead for this week's email. Its pretty meaningful to the future of audiophile formats and written by a TRUE INSIDER - Garry Margolis.

Jerry,

I'll make it very easy for you - the single question that most have asked here is:

1. You, Ken, and Lexicon state that there are differences between the BD-30 and BDP-83SE that result in superior performance from the BD-30. What are those differences?

We'll start with that one so you don't get lost amidst a high pace of rapid fire questions.

Hog,

Ken has a C-55 AMG....

Good call.

Some people pay for the extra goodies. How many of the reviewers at Stereophile and or Audiopholics.com have AV preamps like the Anthem D2v, Meridian 861v4, Krell Evolution 707 and Classe SSP-800? Ken has owned them all. He has done nearly 12 HD disc player reviews in his career. Is it possible that other "surround sound editors" got their player in 2009? Is it possible that other publications only took photos of the player without careful listening? Isn't the end result what matters even if we are discecting the Nth degree of performance at TREMENDOUS price differences?

I am just asking?

j

Ken is going to answer your questions hog as HE did the review not me. i have never played with a Lexicon other than at CEDIA in passing.

The transport on the Lexicon is more quiet which is something that both Brian Kahn and Ken have commented on re: the Oppo.

The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught. I am not an EE.

The Lexicon passes THX's VERY TOUGH certification. Oppo hasn't (but likely would).

The Lexicon and Oppp are sold to COMPLETELY different distribution channels. Oppo is an OEM unit and sold direct. The Lexicon is sold to brick and mortar and custom installers. Both are HIGHLY successful.

Question for you Hog - what Horse do you have in the race? If you think the Oppo is a better value - why not buy it? I did (but ken has it for review but will send it back - NuForce mods). If the Lexicon is a stiff as you suggest wouldn't it die on the vine? We are the consumers. We vote with our economic ballots. That isn't enough? We need stores doing "expose" stories YET somehow MY publication's reputation is in question? Surely, you must be joking. Surely, you have better things to do with your time? If not - will you moderate a forum for me?

XOXO...

Jerry

Jerry,

You are a master of communicating virtually nothing with so many words. Why can't you answer my question directly? You say "transport...is more quiet" - wrap one player inside of another, thicker shell, you'll tend to get that. Not rocket science. You say, "build quality...is better. Better chassis. Less jitter." Provide proof of less jitter - do you even know how to measure this or have the equipment? As with everything else, it must be true simply because you say so, right?

At the end of all of your stabbing in the dark, you still have absolutely zero substantive proof that would indicate a single performance-related difference between two machines. Yet you and Ken maintain that the more expensive one is still better. Surely, you must be joking. Surely, you don't think that the average IQ of your readers is so low that if you repeat something enough, you can get them to believe it even in the face significant evidence to the contrary? How could such behavior not call your publication's reputation into question?

As for the invitation to moderate a forum for you...give me the reigns to yours. Let me run the comment boards. Oh pretty please, with a cherry on top. And maybe some magic stones underneath the dish to really bring out the depth and sibilance of the glorious flavor that would be.

Hog,

I truly feel your pain...you are just like me, desperate to see if you can get Jerry to finally give you a straight answer. He either is dodging the direct questions intentionally, or he is just not understanding what we're asking...as hard as that is to believe.

You've fought a good fight...you stuck with it longer than I could. :) I honestly don't think you're ever going to hear what you need to hear. People like who you're dealing with just go through life oblivious to the most basic aspects of dealing with people honestly. I can't imagine how he goes to bed each night without a ton of guilt.

Chris

I agree with Hog, Jerry, I don't think you're being very objective in your assesment and at this point are simply flinging stuff in the air hoping something will stick, your readers will drop it and move on. It is a pretty simple question - what exactly is different about the Lexicon that makes it better? Most of the stuff you say is simply related to the case or is stuff you are assuming but don't actually know. "better chasis", yes ok fair enough we got that, "better build quality", ok better build quality of the CHASIS maybe, but the internals are identical until Lexicon proves otherwise. "Less jitter and noise", ok did you actually measure this or are you just guessing? I'm assuming it was not measured and you're just throwing it out there, as far as any journalistic standards go this is pretty poor. "transport is more quiet" again, did you actually take the two units apart and measure the noise coming from them or at least compare them in that fashion? I'm assuming what you mean is that the unit is more quiet, not the actual transport, which would make sense because of the greater amount of metal surrounding the transport in the Lexicon. Basically you've said the same thing - that the chassis is better, about 3 different ways, then threw out jitter and noise without actually measuring that to see if it's true.

Telling us that we can vote with our wallets - ok fair enough, but people rely on objective, fair and unbiased reviews to aid them in their purchasing decisions. It is not possible for me to be an auto expert, a computer expert, a phone expert, a stereo expert, a home heating expert, etc. I rely on people I trust to give me good advice so I can make reasonably informed decisions. I think what a lot of your readers feel is that your site, which I can only assume would purport to help and inform it's readers, has put out a flawed and biased review, and that even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary you continue to stand behind it. Is it fair enough to say that for 99.99% of consumers out there buying the BD-30 would be a huge mistake? If so why not simply say that in the review? Why continue to present it as a reasonable purchasing decision for some people when it simply isn't. I mean the only reason I can see buying it is if you have so much money that it simply is not an issue and you like the Lexicon case.

"I can't imagine how he goes to bed each nigh without a ton of guilt."

I know this will get my response cut (maybe all of my posts here), but it needs to be said:

He probably starts by crying himself to sleep on his huge co*k-shaped pillow :)

Hello Jerry,

You state that the lexicon has "less jitter" than the oppo.
Can you please show proof of this measurement.

Thank you,
Nathan

Wow!

Thanks for all the interest in this one. Obviously some major issues have arisen since this review was submitted, I will do my best to address each of them as concisely as possible. I have been sick with the Flu for the last week so have not been as active on this thread as I would have liked!

Jim,
Yes, you are correct the Oppo does come with test discs as well, though I prefer DVE.

Hog,
1. This is the real question every one is wondering, so I will spend most of my time here. First, as I stated in the review, I did perform minor adjustments to my set using DVE on the Lexicon prior to any comparisons. While I used the identical HDMI cable and power cord for both players (Lex BD 30 and Oppo BD-83 SE), it is possible that each player has a slightly different output, and perhaps I should have re-done DVE in the Oppo prior to the comparison, but I did such minor changes to my display it didn’t seem necessary at the time. This alone could account for the slight differences I saw.

Did I see a difference? Yes, I repeated the first scene from Underworld Evolution and STILL find the Lexicon to be slightly better, especially with the purple hue to the marauder’s hair, on the Oppo it seems over done while the Lexicon makes it seem like actual sheen off dark hair.

How is this possible? I have the two units, and I have re-run this scene a dozen times, the Lex looks better, albeit slightly as I stated in the review. I posed the idea of a rebadged Oppo to Lexicon and received this statement in an Email;

"We worked with both Oppo and with their sub-assembly supplier as partners. We requested and obtained numerous changes from what was then the standard Oppo unit. In fact, 40% of the cost of the BD-30 is American content, and it is made in Elkhart IN. The units have gone through a very thorough engineering effort in Elkhart to confirm performance and reliability."

And

"They do thorough tests for performance on each and every unit as a part of production"

Did Lexicon just do better QC than Oppo?

Tough to say.

I can be sure the drive noise is not just the better case, but it is possible that a more solid casing could lessen vibration and improve performance.

I can say unequivocally that the drive was SILENT on the Lexicon, this even if I put my ear up to the chassis as it loaded or spun up discs, my Oppo was noisy as I stated, since then Oppo has sent me a replacement but due to my recent Flu I haven’t unboxed it to compare.

2. I cannot comment on the THX issue.

Fatherom, I believe the comment you are referring to was posted in the comments section and was deleted (even my posts were removed!). See above for the THX issue.

I hope this helps answer some of the questions, certainly the two units are marketed towards totally different markets, there are many with sick level home theaters who simply hate seeing a cheap plastic player in their rig, and I can see why. The case of the Lexicon is beautiful and the buttons far superior to the Oppo’s, albeit at a significantly elevated price.

Let me be clear, I DID THE REVIEW!

I have re-done my viewing tests and STILL STAND BY what I saw! To me, the Lexicon DID have a slight edge over the Oppo BD-83 SE in video performance. Is this edge worth the added cost? Only you can decide what to spend your money on, and for most I am sure the Oppo is all they will ever want/need (there, I said it again!) but for those who want the absolute nth level of refinement, their is the Lexicon.

Ken

Ken,

You quoted Lexicon, and I see they very carefully worded their statement: "We requested and obtained numerous changes from what was then the standard Oppo unit." It would appear that they're talking about the THX certification process, which Oppo actively participated in and made changes to ALL of their players for, not just the ones they're shipping to Lexicon to be put in Lexicon boxes. Furthermore, we don't even know what kind of changes were made - just hardware, just firmware, both? The overriding question - which no one seems to want to directly answer - is HOW THE LEXICON DIFFERS FUNCTIONALLY FROM AN OPPO PRODUCED AFTER THE THX CERTIFICATION PROCESS. Frankly that question needs to be answered before we ever attempt to address the supposed performance differences that you're listing in your "review."

But I would like to make one major comment regarding your observations of both players. Given the relatively loose tolerances in consumer electronics manufacturing, using the display settings you arrived at for the Lexicon on the Oppo as well is a rather major error. The reason is the same as the reason that using the "calibrated" settings from one display on another display of the same make and model doesn't work - and this is backed by loads of repeatable measurements. Each display must be individually calibrated to a reference, and then adjustments must be separately made for each source connected to it. Any professional calibrator worth his salt will explain that this is his basic process.

If you're going to make adjustments to your display to calibrate it for a given unit, you should absolutely be re-calibrating the display when viewing another unit, even of the same model. This is a basic calibration axiom.

Thanks for finally posting, it was nice to hear from the guy who wrote the review :)

Jerry,
One thing I have to back you up on is the following

"Reviews are subjective. If you don't see the value - Don't buy the unit. Its that simple. You are the consumer and you have the POWER!"

Alot of people totally miss this point!

To quote Dina from AVRANT " Go out and listen to something, " because in the end it's all about your own personal experience and your own money.

Jaakan,

I must say I've been staying away from this particular thread, mostly because I did not do the review nor have I ever listened or viewed any source material from either of the two players in question.

Moving on I must say you've hit the nail on the head for me and stated the single most important thing that I think has been missing from the discourse and that is the personal experience and the fact that everyone will have a difference of opinion based on their own experience (not to mention system).

Everyone,

I'm not going take a side on who's right and who's wrong for we can all agree to disagree and that's part of what makes certain aspects of this hobby fun. It's no different with cars, cameras, computers you name it. Choice is the spice of life and this really comes down to choice. Like Ken said if you choose the Oppo, great. If you choose the Lexicon that's good too so long as you're happy.

One thing I would like to touch upon (it was brought up earlier in a previous post) is the question regarding our review format.

Before I continue and in the spirit of full disclosure I've been with Home Theater Review since its inception almost two years ago, prior to that I was with AVRev.com or Audio Video Revolution where I cut my teeth reviewing universal remotes and eventually worked my way up to Managing Editor for both publications. I am proud of this publication and its staff of truly wonderful writers and consider them to be family in many regards so I'm letting my bias be known ahead of time. Are we perfect? No. No one is. We are an opinion based review site that we hope can provide insight and speak to the emotional side of the listening or viewing experience of a product(s) to help guide you in your collective journeys towards total system happiness and satisfaction. We are not the end all be all by any means, we are merely a guide. However should we not provide all of the info you require before making your purchase decision there is a wealth of knowledge out there to take you the rest of the way and we're cool with that.

Like many of you I'm sure, I grew up on a steady diet of Stereophile and the like- dreaming of one day being able to afford some of the truly awesome gear they covered in their pages. That being said, and please don't take this as a knock or an attack, but I never really paid much attention to the specs or graphs presented in those reviews (partially because I was young and didn't much understand them at the time) because at the end of the day you don't feel measurements, charts or graphs. You feel the music or you enjoy the movie. You listen with your heart. (Yes, technically I know its really your ears but I think we all get the point I'm trying to make.) It's an emotional response that is triggered by any number of factors all of which are very un-scientific and unique to the listener or viewer.

That being said, there are people that would rather look at charts and graphs to decide what makes a product good or bad because there is a theoretical "perfect" line out there and in some regards I suppose we're all chasing it and that's fine, it's just not what we do here. We don't crack open cases, or bust out measurement tools or anything like that because it's simply not our style.

I stand by Ken's review as well as behind this publication's credibility and reiterate once again that the review posted above was Ken's personal opinion of the Lexicon BD-30 player and for him he felt it was a good piece of kit.

Now the decision on whether or not you agree with Ken or wish to pay the BD-30's asking price is entirely up to you.

I thank you all for listening and for continuing to comment and engage in the conversation.

Sincerely,

Andrew Robinson
Managing Editor
Home Theater Review

Hello Jerry,

You state that the lexicon has "less jitter" than the oppo.
Can you please show proof of this measurement.

Thank you,
Nathan

I want to say upfront that I appreciate that the site took the time to respond to its users, even if it interfered with Jerry's dinner ;) Seriously, it's something that some of the bigger sites need to do more.

That said, I think that Ken and Andrew basically answered the questions that Jerry has been sidestepping -- that is, they don't have any measurable difference, and that even Lexicon and Oppo (to whom they have reached out for further information) can only provide circumstantial, vague descriptions of the differences in the manufacturing process. Neither company makes any specific claims about the difference in performance. There’s some talk about 40% of the parts being made in America. What does that mean for the final performance? Who knows. There is no need to keep asking for measurements, because they are not available.

Andrew was very honest in describing the mission statement of the site. The reviews are opinion-based and can’t be measured. That’s fine, and as he said, it’s only a part of the picture when it comes to buying AV gear. Like the Lexicon -- you can take it or leave it based on your faith in “brand” of Home Theater Review or its writers.

That said, I have two major philosophical problems with some of the arguments made by Jerry and Ken. They have both supported the positive review of the Lexicon by stating many times that the product is aimed at a different market than the Oppo. The implication here is that the high-end installation market is full of customers who are willing to pay a premium for minimal increases in the experience. Is it because they have so much money that they no longer care about it? Is it because they are thick-skulled and would not listen if they read an informed review that advised them to save a few thousand that could go a long way in another piece of the HT puzzle? Perhaps this is true of the Paris Hiltons of the world, but I think that all readers, in both markets, would appreciate it if you assumed that they were more intelligent than that.

Lastly, Jerry has made passing reference to how criticism of the Lexicon may lead to shrinkage in the high-end market. That’s exactly what’s at issue here! Customers are starting to get fed up at what they are increasingly perceiving as a market that is rife with bloated claims and inflated prices. Jerry has indicated that he had a past with selling gear. Well, as a reviewer, it’s time to stand up for the customer and not the salesman.

I think that’s the big problem here. When a customer reads a review, particularly a “subjective” one, he wants to know that the reviewer is taking the subjective perspective of his end of the experience, not the guy who’s trying to make a buck off of him.

One final thing -- at the risk of distracting from my other points -- what in the world does Newt’s 1994 “Contract with America” have to do with anything?

Cheers,

Matt Mercer
Consumer

Andrew,

Thank you so much for replying in this discussion.
A lot of readers, me included appreciate that.

I have a couple of thoughts I want to express and I hope that I do not come out as judgemental.

I think this hole discussion would have come out much better both for you as a review forum and us as readers and consumers if Ken or Jerry had handled the initial situation a little bit better.

Nobody or at least very few would have objected if the review were only about the Lexicon player. Then your argumentation about Ken`s feelings towards the player would have been valid.

The root of the problem came up when the comparison with the Oppo was done and that the Lexicon player WERE giving better results.
Now that the bluff has been called, and the players are actually identical on the inside, the review here on HomeTheatreReview are shown in another light.

If your employees had answered in a more humble way, and as so many others have said, lets call a spade for a spade and apologized and admitted the fact, it would have been more or less accepted and "forgotten".

Instead we have ended up with a situation where the reviewer has come back and still claim that there ARE differences on the two models, but he can`t give us definitive answers on what those differences are.
And we all understand that this is not true hence the placebo effect that the reviewer will not answer to.

As a reviewer we expect him to give us evidence on the findings or at least explain what he did see.
Since the only thing we have seen are general assumptions and avoiding answering the questions, we realize its all fluff and not reality.

If its just a story about how you feel about a product, do that somewhere else. Don`t call it a review. Because in a review we expect it to be done from a neutral point of view. We want somebody with no strings attached to the product to give us a fair judgement.

I can understand or accept that your philosophy on reviewing products will not contain actual tests with equipment. We as consumers will just have to take that into account when reading something published from HomeTheatreReview.

But then its even more important that the reviewers can actually point to evidence when coming up with conclusions.
Actually stating that the Lexicon is a better product needs to be proved. Its not enough to just say that "Black levels were close, but the Lexicon had a more natural contrast and color palette than the Oppo".
Specially when we hear from someone that is far more experienced in testing as HogPilot are, that its a fundamental error using the same calibration for both products.

Is the reviewer THAT inexperienced?

So now you have ended up in a terrible situation where you has a review forum has lost so much credibility and reputation. Nobody will take a review from the reviewer seriously again because of what has happened.
I don`t know if you have googled this discussion with the names from the people working here, but your site has now been drawn down with Lexicon`s mistakes, and there are really a lot of forums and blogs referring to this exact review which isn`t in a good way.

I guess we all would really like to see the reviewer coming back and aplogizing and admitting the results were wrong and that there is no way to prove actual differences because there are none.

By all means by the Lexicon if you want it, but don`t come here and say it performs better than the Oppo..

Andrew,

In defense of Ken's "review" you said:

"It's an emotional response that is triggered by any number of factors all of which are very un-scientific and unique to the listener or viewer."

If the experience that Ken presented is very un-scientific and unique to just him, of what use are his articles - or any other HTR articles - to anyone else than the person that wrote them? As a consumer, what's the point of reading HTR if you have just as much chance of having the opposite experience of the "reviewer" as you do the same? People look to reviews for assurance in lieu of being able to experience every piece of equipment they're pondering for themselves. If you can't provide that, then what is HTR doing here?

I've certainly never said that objective metrics and data alone tell the entire story with any piece of electronics. That's a common slippery slope argument thrust forward to defend pure subjectivity. On the flip side of that coin however, one can't possibly expect to provide a useful analysis of any electronic equipment based on purely subjective evaluation alone, and this review is a perfect example of why. Absent any kind of objective analysis in any review or comparison, you leave the end result wide open to error because humans are flawed, imperfect measuring devices, biased by emotion and physiological pitfalls. Thankfully for publications like HTR, most equipment that you compare isn't actually identical, so you're able to justify your observations because of the clear electronic/performance differences in the two pieces.

In the end what I see is HTR saying, "the Lexicon is better - just take our word for it." You have a substantial amount of evidence to the contrary staring you in the face, and the only thing in your favor is your insistence that you're right. The worst part is you're not even trying to explain the difference - you're content to simply say there is one irregardless of repeated requests to prove your assertion. You must think your average reader to be incredibly stupid - or incredibly gullible - to swallow that pill.

Until HTR can provide proof that the picture quality is better on the BD-30 and proof that the transport on the BD-30 its all just an oppinion from a company that receives thousands of dollars every month from Lexicon which we all know is a strong reason to say these things.

It appears that scientific measurements and pictures all that prove otherwise means nothing if the pay is good enough.

REGARDS SNOW

Snow,

I founded and published both HomeTheaterReview.com (2008 to present) and AVRev.com (1996 through 2008) and our editorial model at both publications was NEVER to publish measurements. I know some AV sites do this. I know some AV sites (especially forums) think that they know more about electrical engineering than the engineers at top, billion dollar companies. And that's all well and good for them. It creates TONS of debate (thanks for keeping it positive here since I put the comments back up guys!!!) etc...

What my staff does and always has done is SUBJECTIVELY review products. Ken, Andrew and I teach our writers to "treat the review like you are giving advice to a good friend". Not charts and graphs. Use music and movies that people KNOW and can relate to. Describe sound and images using words that people can understand. THIS is the difference between the best reviewers and the rest of the pack.

In the end - its not our job to sell equipment. Its the companies and the retailers. Its our job to spark interest and help people with their research when making an investment or upgrade to their AV system. Considering our readership is up to 307,000 (source: Google Analytics - and I have a chart for that ironically) monthly which is no. 2 only to Stereophile.com at 345,000 (source: Nilesen) and a growth rate of 18% per month seemingly each month - we provide free content that people want to see. We provide ads that top AV companies want to buy and pay a premium for. With over 23,500 FRESH opt-in email names - we have a newsletter than people want to sign up for and read monthly. Considering a public company wanted to pay me NICELY for AVRev.com, ModernHomeTheater.com and AVRevForum.com - seemingly our methods of personal selling, giving meaningful subjective reviews and providing top performing ads - seems to work well.

"We provide ads that top AV companies want to buy and pay a premium for."

So you collect a significant revenue from the companies whose gear you review? And you had the gall to call out Audioholics for selling gear that they review? I hope the kickback you're getting for this Lexicon/Oppo comparison is worth heaping hypocrisy on top of dishonesty.

Are you still burying your head in the sand over this whole thing or are you ready to explain why you have an article comparing two identical machines and magically assigning the expensive one the better assessment?

Hello Jerry,

This is now the THIRD time Ive had to ask you this question - please stop avoiding it:

You state that the lexicon has "less jitter" than the oppo.
Can you please show proof of this measurement.

Thank you,
Nathan

Jerry,

Nathan has asked you the same question three times. Are you purposely ignoring him or are you losing his posts in the rapid pace of responses (even though you still seem to manage to reply to mine regularly)?

Posted by Andrew: "I am proud of this publication and its staff of truly wonderful writers and consider them to be family in many regards so I'm letting my bias be known ahead of time. Are we perfect? No. No one is."

Andrew, it is true that no one is, but there are certain things sites and the people that run them can do that are ethical and unethical and individuals at this site or others can choose the right path or the wrong path when forced to choose. You've mentioned some of your experience in this industry and I'm assuming that you want to continue in it. In that case your reputation will go with you and I think you have an opportunity to show some integrity with an issue with this site or not show much integrity. That issue for me is that you have a reviewer reviewing equipment when the evidence is strong that this same person will sell the same equipment. Jerry brought up the issue of somebody selling a product that is related to a review bringing into question their motives, and yet on this site Jeremy Kipnis continues to review product while on his own site he advertises to build people's dream theaters and it looks pretty clear that he will sell equipment as part of doing that, as can be seen at:

http://www.kipnis-studios.com/The_Kipnis_Studio_Standard/Credits.html

with, "Let us build you your dream theater!"

and other things on the site.

On this site (hometheaterreview.com) Jeremy has reviewed the Stewart ST100 and SIM2 Lumis not too long ago at:

http://hometheaterreview.com/stewart-filmscreen-studiotek-100-screen-material-reviewed/

and:

http://hometheaterreview.com/sim2-c3x-lumis-host-projector-reviewed/

How do you reconcile having a reviewer who seemingly sells some of the same equipment that he reviews for a site where you are Managing Editor? To be clear, I'm not asking how Jerry reconciles his insinuations about retailing and bias at another site with having a reviewer who it seems pretty clearly will sell the same equipment he reviewed here, since I don't think Jerry cares about that and likely sleeps well despite this apparent conflict of interest. I am asking for your position Andrew and whether you are willing to show some integrity around this issue or just continue with the status quo at this site.

And are you willing to tell the readers here whether Jeremy actually had an ST100 in his hands for that ST100 review given the timing of when the review was published and Stewart started selling those screens? And please don't sidestep that question with something like, "It is possible that he had one." Are you willing to find out the truth (if you don't already know it) and let readers know on that one?

Your response to these questions could have a big impact on the reputation of Andrew Robinson in the industry in the future. As I'm sure multiple people on AVS can attest to, when the truth is on my side and I see people being deceived I can be very tenacious and it can be very hard for somebody to just sweep low behavior under the rug. I should probably let you know that if this post is deleted in order to avoid the issue I brought up instead of addressing it I will post it word-for-word along with an explanation of HTR's response on many AV sites. And I will try to make sure that people in this industry know about what happened for years to come, even if those involved move to new websites or different jobs in the industry.

I hope that you will take the road of integrity here whether or not others here would.

Thanks,
Darin

Regarding Jeremy Kipnis - he is a professional video calibrator who has done one quick review and one feature review for us (much more in the past at AVRev.com). I do not believe that he does ANYTHING other than consulting for theaters (such as P-Diddy's in NYC) as his expertise is in 4k video and video calibration. As best I know he does NOT sell any more gear than I do on ebay or Audiogon. When he does - he has to stop working for us. Its that simple. JK knows it too. He will remain a friend, consultant and confidant much like our best dealer friends.

At AVRev.com we used Kevin Miller for projector reviews (as did CNET and others) who is a calibrator and a consultant for many AV companies. He is no. 2 as the ISF and an EXCELLENT video reviewer. Both he and JK are hard to come by. Miller never reviewed anything he consulted on. He spent YEARS before he touched products by the likes of Runco. He and I worked together to keep the ethics AND quality of our video reviews as high as possible.

In the event that Kipnis transcends his business past design and calibration - we will not use him MUCH like Home Theater Magazine no longer uses Jeff Cherun who is an installer now based here in LA. Its CLEARLY a conflict.

I think on the AVS - you unfortunately can't win with those guys. God bless them for their enthusiasm even when its negative and pointed at me and or my publication. At least its good for traffic, ad volume and revenue?

Thanks for your post.

Sincerely,

Jerry

The guy who reviews gear from the manufacturers who pay for his site through ads wonders why all the negativism. Don't worry, no matter what you say in a review, as long as you wrap it in the warm shroud of your opinion it's morally defensible right?

Guys,

I am sorry that I can't keep up with the amount of posts here. I simply can't keep up.

Its been really busy for HTR lately. I can't WAIT to hire a content coordinator who can help me more with posts, comments, editing etc... In the new economy - its hard to afford that level of person but we are getting there. Signed a new deal today with a new client so that's good news. I am hoping to add to our full-time staff around April or perhaps this summer. It depends on ad sales - as always.

Re: jitter - note: I didn't do the review NOR do we do measurements on the unit (we do subjective reviews about overall performance - right or wrong - this is what we think is most valuable to the readers) but a better build quality often makes for less jitter, transport noise and many other digital issues. I am speaking in generalities - as once again I didn't review the Lexicon I am just commenting on the fact that it is built into a much more solid chassis.

Have a great night. Easy on the flames.

So you can make accusations against other publications, and that's fine; accusations aimed at you, no matter how truthful, are flames?

The double standards around here are getting almost as deep as the BS! But please, given how busy you are, please don't feel the need to come back to respond. Ever :)

Hog,

I don't think you understand our business model very well. Allow me to explain again...

WE SELL ADS to AV companies so we can give you FREE professional, insightful content.

If you don't like it or have an issue with it please consider this an invitation to read content elsewhere and ignore us. Upon a closer look - you might find that this model has powered EVERY print mag, nearly every online site and beyond. That of course doesn't include those who now actually SELL GEAR on the Internet. That list is getting longer and longer as I am sure you are aware.

Jerry,

Thank you for finally replying.
I'm quoting you here:
"The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught."

Then in your post above you say you haven't tested the lexicon for jitter.
Therefore you don't know whether it has less jitter or not that the oppo making your "less jitter" statement a straight out lie.

Please respond to this as the integrity of you and your website is now at stake.

Nathan

Jerry,

I see when you can't take the heat, you block people from posting. Interesting you complain about flaming, yet you'll freely flame AVS and Audioholics when it suits you. Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

I understand your model very well, and as you point out it's the same model that most other AV rags use - which, by the way, is no defense for something that is clearly deceptive and dishonest. Manufacturers give you their gear, and you say nice things about it - the picture is so wonderful, the sound is so crisp and airy - and they buy ad space in your publication. It's a self-licking ice cream cone, and you both make money off of it - you're a glorified marketing department.

As far as labeling yourself as "professional...insightful" - do those comments fall into the same category as when your rag said the Lexicon had better blacks an colors? We're just supposed to believe them because you say so? Thus far I've found nothing professional nor insightful about what you're doing here.

What happened to being too busy to respond to any more posts? You took the time to reply to me - and then block me! Meanwhile poor Nathan, who has been politely asking you the same question time and time again hasn't heard so much as a peep out of you. I can't say I'm totally surprised, given how you have conducted yourself thus far.

Kisses and hugs,
HogPilot

Jerry posted: "Regarding Jeremy Kipnis - he is a professional video calibrator who has done one quick review and one feature review for us (much more in the past at AVRev.com)."

Kind of playing down his role here given that you have him listed as a Senior Writer on your masthead and have reviews or articles posted on this site from him from:

August 21, 2008: Meridian 810 projector review
October 11, 2008: Sony SRX-R220 projector review
October 11, 2008: Mitsubishi HC5500 projector review
November 23, 2008: Optoma HD806 projector review
January 11, 2009: Theta Chroma Digital to Analog Converter review
September 2, 2009: ST100 screen review
October 19, 2009: SIM2 Lumis projector review
December 17, 2009: MP201 Pico projector review
December 21, 2009: 3D article

and that isn't all. I just got tired of searching for and finding them all. Do I need to go on, or are you going to stick with this claim that he is someone, "who has done one quick review and one feature review for us"?

Jerry posted: "I do not believe that he does ANYTHING other than consulting for theaters (such as P-Diddy's in NYC) as his expertise is in 4k video and video calibration. As best I know he does NOT sell any more gear than I do on ebay or Audiogon."

So, if he orders brand new gear from manufacturers for specific clients that he is building "dream theaters" for but it doesn't add up to more gear than you sell on ebay or Audiogon then you are fine with him ordering brand new equipment he sell to a client, as long as he isn't very successful at it?

Jerry posted: "In the event that Kipnis transcends his business past design and calibration - we will not use him ..."

Then you just lost a reviewer. But from what I've seen I'm not given much confidence that you will actually follow through. I would be less surprised if you just found excuses like you didn't know that he would sell brand new equipment ordered specifically for a client for part of doing a dream theater for that same client. I think you and I both know that selling used equipment to the highest bidder is a much different story.

I will be watching to see if you continue using him for reviews, etc.

I also notice that you completely avoided the part about whether he actually had an ST100 screen for his ST100 review that you still have on this site. Is it that you don't want people to know about having a "review" where the reviewer didn't actually have one of the product they reviewed, or do you not care about this being the case? People are free to go read that "review" here:

http://hometheaterreview.com/stewart-filmscreen-studiotek-100-screen-material-reviewed/

How many other reviews on this site were done without having the actual product to review? Would this be the only example?

--Darin

One more comment about Jerry's attempt to downplay his friend Jeremy's role here with, "Regarding Jeremy Kipnis - he is a professional video calibrator who has done one quick review and one feature review for us ..." even though there are at least 10 product reviews from Jeremy here.

I looked at the ad that came up at the top of the page for me and it was an ad for the SIM2 Lumis with a quote from Jeremy's review. That ad goes straight to SIM2's site. As Jerry said, "We provide ads that top AV companies want to buy and pay a premium for." So, I assume SIM2 paid a premium for that ad with the quote from Jeremy Kipnis.

Jerry,

Does it really not bother you at all to have somebody who is basically a retailer for a product doing the review for that product here and using quotes from that review in an ad you sold to the manufacturer of that product? Or is this just business as usual in your book? I realize there probably isn't any better way to guarantee a great review than to have somebody who sells that product (or would if they could get somebody to actually order it from them) do the review, but doesn't seem right to me. Does it honestly seem right to you?

Thanks,
Darin

Im kind of new to this all, but wasn't this review quite scientific, as it was apparently a BLIND TEST?

If reviewing doctors (MD) do not look inside the box, how about contracting a surgeon next time?

In all seriousness this only proves what kind of idiots audiophiles are and what a scam the whole Über-HiFi business is.

Mikaël

"If reviewing doctors (MD) do not look inside the box, how about contracting a surgeon next time?"

That brings up a good point - aside from the fact that he can afford to play with a lot of gear because of his income, what kind of background does Ken MD have that qualifies him to "review" (I use the term loosely) A/V gear? So far it seems that having eyes, ears, and any old opinion - as long as it's one that the paying manufacturer will like - will do.

Wow! I'm glad I decided to wait to read more about this Lexicon. It was looking good until this exposure came up. Talk about the user community coming to the rescue! Why do I even read what reviewers have to say? I guess some of them are OK, but this review, sheeesh. I liked how Jerry said "Ken, Andrew and I teach our writers to "treat the review like you are giving advice to a good friend"."

Ummm...with a friend like that, I really don't need any enemies. I like to have a friend who will give me the review that was given (which, in all honesty was a fair review) and then say something like "NOT WORTH THE EXTRA $3,000.00!!! Save your money, FRIEND!" (which, in all honesty, SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED, but didn't!)

Oh, what fun.

Jerry - as soon as I saw the audioholics review, I commented that: "I'd like to see if any gullible magazines have reviewed it and what they made of it."

You have provided that, in spades.

There is the well-known piece of advice that when you find yourself in a hole, it is time to stop digging. I can only assume that you have decided that it is now quicker for you to carry on digging to China.

Others have questioned how Ken's medical degree qualifies him to review hi-fi and a-v equipment. I must say that, as a medic myself, I am more concerned about his apparent lack of comprehension of the placebo effect, and the consequent vital importance of blinding in research. A doctor, of all people, should be fully aware of how the sight of the logo on the front of the device can influence our perception of what enters our eyes and ears.
Anything else is subjective.

I think Mark has it right when he said that would expect the review to indicate the at the very least striking similarities between the 2 players in question. It is certainly Lexicon's right to price their product any way they want, even if they decide to just stick their name on top of Oppo's name with masking tape. They will pay the consequences in brand equity. And so is HTR due to their lack of due diligence on this write up (not really a review).

Regarding Jerry's analogy between his dad's Maserati and a Ferrari, well, that is exactly the reverse scenario. His dad bought an Oppo with Lexington guts, so to speak. This case would be like Somebody buying a "Ferrari" that is in fact a Maserati painted in a different color, and the car magazines saying it was better than anything they had previously seen, without revealing the "similarities" between the 2 cars.

And Jerry, keep your stupid irrelevant political comments to yourself.

No one is impressed that Jerry's dad drives a Maserati. Especially since Jerry thinks it shares its chassis with the F430, when in fact it's actually shared with the California. The Ferrari California, like this Lexicon unit, is a cynical attempt by a company with a lot of brand equity to cash that in by hoodwinking those who are shopping only for the brand and not for substance. The effect on the long-term brand equity from such pursuits is easily predicted.

As far as HTR's policy of not doing any objective testing, it seems that this review reveals exactly why such testing is appropriate. Without it, it's not a review. It's just a personal story of one man's (brief) experience with this product, suitable for entertainment but nothing more. I can't speak to reviewer Ken's credentials, but it's clear that the comments herein offer more substantive information as well as more entertainment than the "review" itself.

I don't think anyone can validly dispute Ken's subjective impressions. Whether those impressions have value to anyone else, on the other hand, is the critical question. It seems that the readership here is rather dissatisfied by the value they perceive in Ken's opinions. The editors of HTR had this opportunity to either improve their work in response to the feedback or stand on their high-horse and tell virtually every reader that they were wrong. I'm sure this particular review is getting plenty of hits, but I doubt that many of those readers will come back if what they're looking for is serious journalism.

For some people, a $3,500 purchase is just not worth doing any research. Some people are very impressed by weight and a fancy aluminum faceplate. Some people try to impress complete strangers by repeatedly mentioning what car their dad drives. And a fool and his money are soon parted. The Lexicon is proof that there are plenty of outright fools who somehow can afford $30k for a home theater system. The BD-30 will efficiently part such fools from at least some portion of their money.

If you see one in someone's house, try not to laugh. (Too hard.) Just volunteer to bring the refreshments: fill some bottles with water from your garden hose and tell 'em it cost $3,500. (Don't forget to stick a fancy label on there.)

Ever drive a Ferrari California? I have been lucky enough to do so - twice. Great car. Same with the Granturissmo.

Similar parts designed for different markets. Notably different price points.

Jerry: seriously, no one is impressed. Get over it. If you thought the GranTurismo was so great, you'd spell its name correctly.

I enjoy driving my Honda Fit tremendously, just as I enjoyed the two other 100-hp cars I had before it. No, it doesn't make me aroused to think about how few people can afford the same experience. I guess that's something I'll just have to live with. For the price of a California, you could spay or neuter something like 5,000 cats. For me, with that kind of money to burn, the choice would be easy. You clearly have different priorities.

The nice people at SarcMark need to figure out how to watermark this entire site with their trademark.

I must say, I find it interesting that so many people are complaining that the Lexicon isn't worth $3500, but nobody seems to balk at paying $500 for the Oppo. Is it really better than a $200 Onkyo/Sony/Toshiba? Well, if you want to play some odd-wad foreign video format, maybe. But if you're really that concerned with price, why pay more for stuff you're never going to use?

I swear, the only thing more pathetic than some loser claiming that their "system sounds warmer, with a larger soundstage" after installing a set of $100 interconnect cables is another loser claiming that their system sounds better "because my preamp has less than 0.005% THD". Bend over THIS barrel if you're swayed by flowery language, bend over THIS barrel if you're a sucker for numbers and graphs.

True fact: watching a movie on a $75 Sony from Best Buy looks exactly the same as watching it on a $35 Coby from Wal-Mart when you're watching it on a 20yo 27" Magnavox console TV. However, the Sony's a better buy because you don't have to replace it every 5-6 months. When my neighbor's $400 DVD player ("it's got Burr-Brown DACs, it's amazing!") died in the middle of an impromptu John Carpenter movie festival, we substituted a 9yo Denon I had in the garage with no noticable change in picture or audio quality. This was on a 50" Pioneer Elite TV with an Onkyo (802-something) pushing a Klipsch home theater set-up (B3?). Hardly an "audiophile-grade" set-up, but if component quality were really a big deal I would have expected something to show up.

Face it, A/V equipment maps to asymptotic curve with reproduction quality on the Y-axis and cost on the X-axis. You hit 90% quality long before you hit 50% of cost, and after that you can't hear the difference. No, I AM talking to you, and I call bullshit on anyone who claims that their $20K tube amp sounds better than the old Fisher 400 I got for $30 at a garage sale. I know nobody I have asked can tell the difference (in blind listening tests) between it and a Carver CM-1090, which is easily twice the power and a completely different technology besides. And if *that's* inaudible, then all the oxygen-free Litz wire and silver solder in the world isn't going to save you. Oh, and yeah, some of the testers were "I can hear the difference between a 1-foot and the 3-foot interconnect"-class audiophiles. Just like you.

Honestly, if the snake oil's too expensive, then maybe you should rethink your lifestyle choices...

Jerry,

I'm posting this question a second time because you ignored it the first time
I'm quoting you here:
"The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught."

Then in your post above you say you haven't tested the lexicon for jitter.
Therefore you don't know whether it has less jitter or not that the oppo making your "less jitter" statement a straight out lie.

Please respond to this as the integrity of you and your website is now at stake.

Nathan

Mungo - Have you used the BDP-83? I'll admit that the player is not appropriate for every application is (no product achieves that), and if you just want to watch Blu-rays there are cheaper players available. The combination of Blu-ray performance, speed, DVD performance (including scaling and deinterlacing), SACD support, DVD-Audio support, analog audio performance, and customer service do all matter to some people and can justify the $500 investment very easily. Heck, the only player that costs less and offers SACD and DVD-Audio support is the OPPO Digital BDP-80 (which was released yesterday for $289).

I would still like to know how Lexicon is handling firmware updates for the BD-30 (since the BDP-83 has seen updates in the last month that have both addressed disc compatibility issues with new releases *and* added new features that could benefit some Lexicon owners). I would also like to know how the analog audio performance compared between the BD-30, stock BDP-83, and BDP-83SE.

Also, it's worth noting that another home theater review site has posted their findings regarding the BD-30. While they do not condone Audioholics' approach to the subject, their findings do match. See the article here:

http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-listen-lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player

Um, SACD? What's the point? You're aware that the majority of SACD releases are re-issues of older releases that were recorded in stereo, right? So whatever you hear is some audio engineer's idea of what the original session *might* have sounded like. Or better yet, what they *wish* it would have sounded like. Is an SACD version of *Dark Side of the Moon* going to sound better than my "virgin vinyl" copy played on my old B&O turntable? Doubtful. Different, sure, but better? Not unless Alan Parsons himself does the remix -- and considering the job Glyn Johns did on the SACD release of *Slowhand*, maybe not even then.

I've actually been looking at the Panasonic DMP-BD80K (local shop is having a sale). It plays Blu-Ray movies. No dubious "features" I'll never use, no "premium high-end components" snake-oil, no SACD, no DVD-Audio, no THX, no HDMI 2.0, no apologies, no regrets. And the picture will look just as good as a BDP-83SE, for less than half the price. Think about it.

Jerry,

I'm posting this question a THIRD time because you ignored it the last two times
I'm quoting you here:
"The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught."

Then in your post above you say you haven't tested the lexicon for jitter.
Therefore you don't know whether it has less jitter or not that the oppo making your "less jitter" statement a straight out lie.

Please respond to this as the integrity of you and your website is now at stake.

Nathan

Mr. Robinson,
I'm one of those who when I was younger I dreamed of owning the top of the line A/V equipment. As I got older my dreams faded into reality as I realized that buying food and paying bills came first. I also learned that just because a piece of A/V equipment cost thousands of dollars didn't mean it was always the best sounding or looking, at least to my ears/eyes. I learned that with researching reviews, and live listening and viewing, I could put together a home theater that was in my budget, yet got compliments from friends who earned a lot more then I did. These friends to this day still come to me for advice whenever they want to purchase any A/V equipment. Even though they could afford pretty much any piece of equipment out there. Why do they still ask my advice? Because as a friend they know I will level with them on any piece of equipment they want to buy, regardless of their income. Not saying I would stir them away from some high price piece, but I tell them exactly what the real benefits are compared to other pieces out there.
I knew nothing of HTR till I read about the Lexicon BD-30 review on Robert Silva Home Theater blog and seen the link to HTR. I read both the Audioholics review and HTR's. I must admit that I was a little surprised at Ken;s review. He did list some facts:
1) "The unit comes with topnotch packing as well, with high-density foam surrounding the player. It comes double boxed."
2) "going through the accessories, caught sight of the combined stereo analog composite video cable"
3) "Lexicon did include a nice quality HDMI cable, power cord, remote, a bound manual and one other bonus, a copy of Digital Video Essential HD: Basics (DVD International) on Blu-ray"
4) "The Lexicon is a taller, much heftier unit." vs the Oppo.
5) "the Lexicon was nearly totally silent when loading discs and changing tracks."
6) The Lexicon cost "$3,500"
Frankly, I don't see what the first 2 facts have to do with performance, but bottom line I can't understand how Ken could have not concluded his review without stating that except for possible minor improvements, this Lexicon BD-30 is just a very high priced toy compared to the more then equal performance and affordable Oppo BD-83.
This will be the last time I come to HTR for a product review.

Mr. Robinson,
I'm one of those who when I was younger I dreamed of owning the top of the line A/V equipment. As I got older my dreams faded into reality as I realized that buying food and paying bills came first. I also learned that just because a piece of A/V equipment cost thousands of dollars didn't mean it was always the best sounding or looking, at least to my ears/eyes. I learned that with researching reviews, and live listening and viewing, I could put together a home theater that was in my budget, yet got compliments from friends who earned a lot more then I did. These friends to this day still come to me for advice whenever they want to purchase any A/V equipment. Even though they could afford pretty much any piece of equipment out there. Why do they still ask my advice? Because as a friend they know I will level with them on any piece of equipment they want to buy, regardless of their income. Not saying I would stir them away from some high price piece, but I tell them exactly what the real benefits are compared to other pieces out there.
I knew nothing of HTR till I read about the Lexicon BD-30 review on Robert Silva Home Theater blog and seen the link to HTR. I read both the Audioholics review and HTR's. I must admit that I was a little surprised at Ken;s review. He did list some facts:
1) "The unit comes with topnotch packing as well, with high-density foam surrounding the player. It comes double boxed."
2) "going through the accessories, caught sight of the combined stereo analog composite video cable"
3) "Lexicon did include a nice quality HDMI cable, power cord, remote, a bound manual and one other bonus, a copy of Digital Video Essential HD: Basics (DVD International) on Blu-ray"
4) "The Lexicon is a taller, much heftier unit." vs the Oppo.
5) "the Lexicon was nearly totally silent when loading discs and changing tracks."
6) The Lexicon cost "$3,500"
Frankly, I don't see what the first 2 facts have to do with performance, but bottom line I can't understand how Ken could have not concluded his review without stating that except for possible minor improvements, this Lexicon BD-30 is just a very high priced toy compared to the more then equal performance and affordable Oppo BD-83.
This will be the last time I come to HTR for a product review.

Is this argument or better yet debate between the hog( go 4 it ) and this Jerry guy for real????
The pictures r clearly shown on Audioholics website and thats all you really need to go with in a sight comparison, As far as the sound well they did the test and you know what, I think it settle that that the Lexicon is ripping people off. People who buy something way overpriced think hands down they have the best product out there and this Jerry person is one of them. Monster cable is the master of selling a inferior overpriced product and telling people it's the best.

Jerry,

I'm posting this question a FOURTH time because you ignored it the last THREE times
I'm quoting you here:
"The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught."

Then in your post above you say you haven't tested the lexicon for jitter.

Therefore you don't know whether it has less jitter or not that the oppo, making your "less jitter" statement a straight out lie?

WHY ARE YOU AVOIDING THE QUESTION?

Nathan

One last thought on this from me, if you buy a McIntosh product there's a list a mile long that describes why the McIntosh is a superior piece of equipment, and for those who say the sound is so much better than X, Y, or Z, they have this list to back them up as to the quality of that piece. Lexicon & Ken have just the opposite, info that shows the Lexicon to be no better than a $500 BD player. Yet they swear that this is a high end piece of equipment. Even in the old analog days, reviewers would back up their reviews with some solid data, even if the listening test proved that it sounded much better then the specs/data showed it should. There's nothing wrong with liking a high end piece of equipment regardless of it specs, but at least the truth about it and let people know that bottom line it's just a glorified lower cost BD player, not the Holy Grail of BD players you made it out to be.

Jerry,

I'm sincerely disappointed with the attitude being portrayed here. Who cares if Audioholics sells the Oppo or not? The question is whether they are the same, and the short answer is: yes. A better chassis is the only difference. Some would think this is worth a $200 - $400 price hike, because the machining and materials can be a bit more costly. However there's no measurable benefit, and since you guys offer no measurements it's best to come out and say that in reality they are the same.

Lexicon may have helped supplement Oppo's R&D, but it's still irrelevant too. Whether the practice of rebadging is common or not is also irrelevant.

This is a PR mess HTR.com should just own up to and continue on with this as a learning lesson. By perpetuating this, adding hypocrisy, and sidestepping involvement with Jeremy Kipnis things are only bound to get worse.

Jerry Del Colliano said, "In the event that Kipnis transcends his business past design and calibration - we will not use him ..."

I still have my doubts about Jerry keeping his word on the above, but I found something on this subject that I thought a lot of people might find interesting. Jerry defends both using Jeremy Kipnis as a reviewer and the Lexicon review. Lexicon is owned by Harman, right? Well, in his linkedin info Jeremy Kipnis claims that he has been a Harman International dealer since 1992 and still is. Besides claiming to be a Camelot Technology dealer, a Sony Cierge dealer, and a McIntosh International dealer, amongst other things.

Jerry claims that Jeremy and him are friends, so I would expect they know some things about each other.

Jerry,

Did you know that Jeremy was a Harman International dealer (amongst being a dealer for other products) when you defended him as if he had only done 2 reviews for this site (when the record clearly shows otherwise) and was only a designer and calibrator?

BTW: In Jeremy's own words:

"Worldwide Dealer
Harman International
(Public Company; HAR; Consumer Electronics industry)
January 1992 — Present (18 years 2 months)
International Dealer of fine professional and consumer audio products from world leaders: AKG, Becker, Crown, dbx, Harman/Kardon, Infinity, JBL, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, QNX, and Soundcraft/Studer."

Notice Lexicon in there? I wonder if that linkedin page will change now.

--Darin

Kipnis is a consultant and noted video calibrator. I don't believe he sells any products from the brands listed above other than into the pro audio world. He did one main consulting project for P-Diddy last year. That was somewhat pro-sumer.

For the record, Kipnis has no assignments with HomeTheaterReview.com going forward.

He has done only a few reviews for us including one feature review for SIM2, some 4k and pro video projectors and some screens. All of which have been excellent reviews.

Jerry,

You don't seem to care that Jeremy is a dealer and does reviews for you. Do you care that Jeremy was a Sony dealer at the time that you posted the Sony SRX-R220 review from him? You say that you are friends and Jeremy has done reviews for you going back a ways. Did you know he was a dealer for Sony when you posted that Sony product review from him?

Is this normal business for you? That is, having a dealer do reviews and then defending it as if it is no big deal? You were the one who started with the accusation against Audioholics about them selling a product they were discussing because you said that brought in the question of whether they would be biased (although I would have to look back for exact wording as I think you deleted it afterward), yet you've had a dealer doing reviews and every time it has been brought up to you that I've seen you've defended it (including trying to downplay it with stuff that was obviously misleading, like trying to make people believe he had only done 2 reviews here).

You still list him as a writer here, so you again trying to sweep this issue with you having a dealer do reviews by saying he doesn't currently have any assignments doesn't mean to me that you are actually going to be a stand up guy and do something about having a writer who is a dealer (including for a company he wrote a review for and for a company that you are defending a review for).

Thanks,
Darin

He's not a dealer. He's a calibrator and a consultant. I don't care what he puts on his website. That's upto him. He doesn't have a retail business and he RARELY (if ever) sells product from what i know. He sells professional services just like Kevin Miller etc...

Where else would you get a Sony Cinealta projector review? Cutting edge stuff. Big dollars and Sony isn't just sending them out to us and or Home Theater or Audioholics.com! :)

Home Theater Magazine had a consultant who was a writer for a while named Jeff Cherun. Nice guy. I met him through the then contact at Linn as both Jeff and I are based in LA. When his design business took off - he stopped reviewing. Andrew Robinson has done the same with Kipnis. He's not in our editorial schedule and in reality - he did only specific reviews (pro projectors, one feature review, maybe a featured news story and some quick reviews on screens and pro stuff that made for good content).

The fact is: truly well educated and experienced video reviewers are hard to find. Kevin Miller has been doing consulting for some brands thus he has been out. With Kipnis out, its hard to find people who know their antilumens and how to write. Kipnis does both well even if the cyber terrorists from the forums don't like him. The good news is: they know more about EVERYTHING than EVERYBODY.

ken taraszka lexicon bd-30 review, stinks!!!....

So does Ken. He rarely showers and he farts worse than his Great Dane.

Brilliant comment Jose.

Jerry: "He's not a dealer."

And yet when asked if he would sell the equipment as part of doing a theater he said he would. And he lists himself as a dealer for multiple companies.

I know you don't care what he puts on his website and whether he will sell brand new equipment to people as part of his business. You've made that pretty clear.

Jerry: "The fact is: truly well educated and experienced video reviewers are hard to find."

I hadn't even touched on how incompetent Jeremy is. If you think he is truly knowledgeable about video then I think you should raise your standards. The guy has posted some of the most ignorant stuff I have ever seen from anybody about video for the amount of experience he claims. I know you like to jump back to how much experience somebody has, but if a person has a lot of experience and can't figure out the basics as well as somebody with little experience, that isn't a good sign. Jeremy claims that gamma doesn't apply to digital and so if white is 10 ft-lamberts a 50% video signal should be 5 ft-lamberts, yet he claims to be a great calibrator. We all make mistakes, but Jeremy is so ignorant that even after lots of help he still couldn't get it and claimed that gamma didn't apply to digital. So, how is it that he sets the images up with his equipment if he can't figure out what the levels are supposed to be, even to within the ballpark? Does he really make 50% video signals end up half as bright in ft-lamberts and 100% video signals? If so, the images after his calibration would suck. So, maybe he doesn't really know what he is doing and just wings it.

I know you don't have your writers do measurements. Maybe that is a good thing given how incompetent it might show at least one of them to be.

If Jeremy is your standard, then go ahead.

If anybody wants to see this ignorance in action they can just google for "DefinerOfReality duh" since Jeremy has posted the stuff I am talking about as DefinerOfReality.

--Darin

Oh god, Ken also stinks!?!??!… I talked about his review…Well, nobody can deny coherence, after all….

Darin,

You make a compelling argument.

Would you like a job writing for us?

Screw Kipnis- right?. I am over him. I want someone who knows more. I want someone who knows it ALL. Video, publishing everything.

Are you that guy? And if not - who is. I need him. Shit, forget the publishing part - I mean I guess I am pretty good at that - but you got better video guys who can write - I need to know them. Email me privately.

Jerry,

I'm posting this question a FIFTH time because you ignored it the last FOUR times
I'm quoting you here:
"The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught."

Then in your post above you say you haven't tested the lexicon for jitter.

Therefore you don't know whether it has less jitter or not that the oppo, making your "less jitter" statement a straight out lie?

WHY ARE YOU AVOIDING THE QUESTION?

Nathan

For the record, I shower frequently....

Nathan,

Please re-read the thread, Jerry answered this question a long time ago, it was given on 1/20/2010......

Ken Taraszka, MD

Ken,

Jerry does NOT answer the question.

1/20/2010 at 4:07pm - Jerry stated that the lexicon was better because it had "less jitter".

1/20/2010 at 6:21am - I ask: "You state that the lexicon has "less jitter" than the oppo.
Can you please show proof of this measurement."

1/21/2010 at 8:43pm - Jerry: "NOR do we do measurements on the unit"

1/21/2010 at 8:57pm - I reply:
"Then in your post above you say you haven't tested the lexicon for jitter.
Therefore you don't know whether it has less jitter or not that the oppo making your "less jitter" statement a straight out lie.
Please respond to this as the integrity of you and your website is now at stake."

After asking the same question FIVE times (yes, FIVE times!) we still haven't received an answer.

STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION!

Nathan,

Re-read the thread and stop looking for a fight. Jerry already addressed this question so kindly move on.

KT

Ken,

I have read the whole thread twice and cant see any answer.

If you state the lexicon has "less jitter" than the oppo, and then admit that you haven't tested either unit for jitter, then surely you must expect people to question your findings.

I'm not looking for a fight - I'm looking for proof of your "less jitter" comment.

Can you please answer the question?
You are further eroding your publications credibility by avoiding the question.

Nathan,

In Jerry's 1/19/2010 post he stated; "The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught. I am not an EE."

Answered.

Ken,

THAT is what you call an answer?!? Oh my god, this whole thing is laughable...it is obvious no one at HTR knows what they're doing or how to deal with this stuff professionally.

I just had to registered to comment. this publication is a sham. how much is lexicon giving you two, ken and jerry? just how much? at least fess up to that, and we can give you some credit for that. you have provided no fact whatsoever that this player performs better than the Oppo. Other than, heavier, better built (in your opinion), less noise (in your opinion). yes, I re-read jerry's response on 1/20; he gave the runaround then, and it is still the same runaround answer on 2/9.

you ought to be ashamed by calling yourself a Dr., Ken. a doctor of what exactly? I bet whatever that is, may be a sham as well.

from now on, please address me as Dr. Woody. Thank you.

Woody,

I am a board certified anesthesiologist, so feel free to attack me and my career. All it does is unfortunately discredit you as my credentials are available for all to see. I trained at some of the finest institutions in this country and have an impeccable record since. I will not address you as Dr. unless you have EARNED it! I did and merit my title.

FWIW if you read the newest Stereophile, Kal R. agrees with me, he found the sound slightly better from the Lexicon than the Oppo! Maybe you all want to go trash him and his magazine now! While he didn't make any comment on video, surely the small difference he heard in the audio section can, and likely does coincide with the video advantage I commented on.

FWIW I got NOTHING from Lexicon nor Oppo, I bought an Oppo BD-83SE, got the NuForce edition for review, and the Lexicon came in for review as well, so it is going back with NO, ZERO, NIL in my pocket. The Lexicon is awaiting UPS, and the NuForce will go back once I am done reviewing it. I get paid a small fee for reviews, that is completely independent of what the product is or if it is a good or bad review.

The integrity of our magazine is solid. Once again Woody, I am an M.D., so yes, a doctor. Go through college, medical school and a residency and talk to me then about my title! In the mean time I will not nor ever address you as doctor until you prove you have the credentials for the title!

Ken said: "The integrity of our magazine is solid."

Ken,

I had written something that I hadn't submitted in which I said that I didn't have anything against you, but given that you claim the integrity of your magazine is solid even as Jerry pretty much admitted that he knew that Jeremy was a Sony dealer at the time that Jeremy's claimed "review" of the Sony RSX-R220 went up and Jerry used a lame excuse that where else was he going to get a review of that unit than from a dealer, I think your integrity comes into question if you truly believe that the integrity of this magazine is solid.

I find it hard to believe that a board certified anesthesiologist would think the integrity of the place was fine with stuff like that. Do you also believe that posting reviews where the reviewer didn't have the actual item to review is within solid integrity? Or were you not aware of things like Jeremy's Stewart ST100 review where Jerry doesn't want to actually answer whether Jeremy really had an ST100 screen in his possession for that review?

If you didn't know about the above then I wonder how given the discussion here. Do you care that one of the writers here is a Lexicon dealer, or do you think Jerry defending this review even as one of the writers here is a Lexicon dealer falls within solid integrity too. If you did know about some of this stuff and still claim that the integrity of the magazine then I for one think there is something seriously wrong with your integrity and wonder if that is the kind of lack of integrity you would think was fine in your medical profession.

Really makes me wonder how low this place would have to stoop for you think think their integrity wasn't solid.

--Darin

And no Jerry, I don't want a job as a writer here (even though I know you were largely joking, though you could use some good writers). I can write, but even if I didn't want to keep this a hobby instead of a job I wouldn't write for you just because of that lack of integrity I think you show. Just what I've seen from you since this review went up would be enough for me to never work with you, let alone for you. And I'm betting I'm not the only person who feels that way. I know it isn't just hobbyists that are reading this thread. There are people in this industry reading it too and I'm guessing that a fair number of them have not been very impressed by the way you have handled it Jerry. You seem to be able to dish it out, but not take it. You attack Audioholics and then whine about true things that people bring up against this place. You talk about how people need to be civil even as you get nasty. You accuse Audioholics with comments about them benefiting financially and so bias being in question, yet you knowingly use a dealer to do reviews and when it is brought up stoop to low tactics like trying to make people believe that the person wasn't a dealer and only wrote a couple of reviews here, when the record shows otherwise. You've shown me that you'll stoop to some pretty low levels. And Ken can think you show integrity, but that is not a good reflection on Ken if he truly believes so.

You can get excited about the amount of traffic here since this review, but I could put a kick-me sign on my back and go to the store in my underwear, then brag about how much attention I got. But I would be able to figure out that it wasn't good attention. I'm guessing you'll get to see how good the attention was when you have some dealings with people in the industry who have followed this.

BTW: Do you think your friend (and currently Senior Writer here according the masthead) Jeremy is capable of answering my question on the avsforum about how bright different video levels should be, which is related to his claim that gamma doesn't apply to digital? So far he seems to be avoiding that question. If you do get another video writer maybe you should see if they are smart enough to answer that one.

And if you want to ask me any other questions, go ahead. Just please answer my question about whether Jeremy had an actual Stewart ST100 for the ST100 review that you still have posted here (and whether this is normal for this site), since you've avoided that question here so far.

--Darin

Are you sure you are not a schill for Shane Buttner from Home Theater Magazine? A number of people think you are. Reportedly a similar IP address, the same zip code, the same city. Reportedly, you have in the last 11 months sold four projectors that Shane has reviewed.

Shane's boss say it isn't so but my sources disagree.

One thing that is for sure - you have the same boner for HomeTheaterReview.com that Shane does. Who else in all of AV has a bone to pick with HTR (Shane was the power behind the trademark issue this summer between SORC and HTR) as well as Jeremy Kipnis. Note: Kipnis' business model is the EXACT SAME as Theo Kalamarakis yet somehow Darin can't seem to stop talking about him. Odd isn't it?

We like the attention and LOVE the boom in readership. Attacking Ken makes you look like a fool however. Attack me if you like but then again other than to compare me with Bill Curtis who in the AV business has been more successful as a publisher in the last 20 years?

Jerry: "Are you sure you are not a schill for Shane Buttner from Home Theater Magazine? A number of people think you are. Reportedly a similar IP address, the same zip code, the same city."

Seriously Jerry, are you this dumb? "Reportedly". Looks like your reports on that are as good as your reports on here, which is to say that you are posting BS. You should get some better reporting instead of posting things that aren't true on your own site.

And I don't know where you got that "Reportedly, you have in the last 11 months sold four projectors that Shane has reviewed." Are you making stuff up, is somebody else, or is somebody just not very swift? I would have to think about what I've sold in the last 11 months, but wouldn't surprise me if what I've sold your magazine had reviewed the same or similar model. Maybe that means I got them from you?

I don't know who Theo Kalamarakis is, but if their business model is the same as Jerry's and a magazine or site is using them as a reviewer with no mention of their business model, then I do think that would be pretty pitiful.

I notice that you still refuse to answer my question about whether Jeremy had an ST100 screen for the ST100 review that you still have on this site. Is that how you normally operate?

--Darin

Darin,

Could you be so dumb as to not know Theo? He is the most noted, most published home theater designer in the history of AV. He has coffee table books. He has been published in the LA Times, The NY Times, AVI, Robb Report, AD and beyond.

As for me - I am pretty open an over about who I am. Started my career in Philly working for Bryn Mawr Stereo and Sassafras Audio. Have a degree from USC in music. Was the number one Wilson Audio salesman in the nation at 19 years old while working for Christopher Hansen Ltd. (will be playing golf with him tomorrow at Riviera where we are both members now) then went on to mentor under Mark Levinson at Cello. I left Cello after selling a $300,000 home theater and recording system to one of the most noted poker players on TV today (they weren't on TV then) and started AudioRevolution.com with $11,300. In 2008 I sold AVRev.com (note: the name change) to Internet Brands along with ModernHomeTheater.com and AVRevForum.com. In August 2008, I started HomeTheaterReview.com as a parked domain. 18 months later it is the second largest AV publication in all of AV media with 313,000 monthly readers (source: Google Analytics) behind only Stereophile.com.

Ken Taraszka is a board certified anesthesiologist based in Tampa. Much like me - his professional credentials are pretty easy to look up. He is a respected member of his community and he has a long track record in the AV business with nearly a dozen Blu-ray player reviews and more HIGH END AV preamp reviews than any other AV reviewer including the Anthem D2, Meridian's 861v4, Krell's Evo 707 and Classe's SSP-800. Personally, I have owned the Mark Levinson No. 40, the Meridian 861v4, the Classe SSP-600 and SSP-800 myself.

Who are you Darin?

What do you do?

I am interested to find out. I am sure the readers who follow your cyber-attack on Lexicon would also like to know. Perhaps you work for a competing publication? Perhaps you work for a company who makes a competing Blu-ray player. If you have nothing to hide - then post who you are and what you do. What could you have to hide from?

Looking forward to your response.

Ken,

Once again you haven't answered the question.
You quoted Jerry:
"The build quality of the Lexicon is better. Better chassis. Less jitter. Less noise as I have been taught. I am not an EE."

Where is the measurements of jitter to prove this claim?
If you haven't done any jitter measurements then how can you state the lexicon has less jitter than the oppo?

Neither you or Jerry have made a very good case for yourselves or your publication's integrity by trying to avoid so many questions.

I notice Jerry is still trying to avoid the ST100 question from Darin, even when he has been asked several times.

We all make mistakes in life - the bigger man is the one who can admit them....

$10 says we wont get a straight answer

Since 10 is at hand - I will comment.

For 13 years - my publications don't indulge in psuedo math and bogus measurements where some so-called engineer nitpicks another one from an AV company over a product. While that may be fine for some publications - it isn't fine with mine. Considering the number and or multiple that they have sold for and or the top line revenue they generate - I think its safe to say they are a success. People want to know if a product is good from a reviewer using his eyes, ears and experience just like a consumer does when he or she actually BUYS a component.

If you want graphs to teach you that a more solid chassis can make an improvement on a player - then I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you need to read somewhere else. Considering what an annoying ass you have been - in fact consider this an invitation to crawl back to whatever forum you came out of.

Lastly - send my $10 to 9701 Wilshire Boulevard 10th Floor, Beverly Hills, CA 90212. I will donate it to Haiti.

Jerry-

As you were informed privately earlier this week, I am not posting on your site as Darinp2. Further, Darinp2 is not posting on your site on my behalf or at my direction. Period.

Neither myself nor anyone else associated with Home Theater Magazine has sold any projectors or any other equipment loaned to the magazine for review through Darinp2 or any other third parties.

I felt it necessary to inform your readers that these are baseless accusations.

Shane Buettner (B-U-E-T-T-N-E-R)
Editor- Home Theater Magazine

Thanks for posting Shane.

As you will note - I mentioned that Source denied it.

You have to admit that the circumstances are compelling but I believe you.

"FWIW if you read the newest Stereophile, Kal R. agrees with me, he found the sound slightly better from the Lexicon than the Oppo!"

While this may be factually correct, it does not really convey my assessment or conclusions about the Lexicon player. I would prefer you not state that I agree with you and I would prefer that others read my comments in full to draw their own conclusions.

Kal Rubinson

I recommend that every one buys TWO copies of the new Stereophile. In fact, I just re-subscribed myself to support ANY publication that supports the high end and products like the Lexicon BD-30.

Great work on the review Kal and good to see you posting on HTR. Don't be a stranger!!!

Jerry

Kal,

I wish people would read my entire review too as I would have avoided many of the frankly obnoxious attacks on me and my character, amazingly I have even been attacked as a physician! I was merely providing further evidence that the two players may be very close but both you and I did detect slight differences that both favored the Lexicon.

I was only jesting about people attacking you and your site and doubt it will happen, I suspect I/we haver taken most of the heat from this flame!

Jerry, Looks like you missed out on $10
Once again, not answering the question.
Lets try again:

If you haven't done any jitter measurements then how can you state the lexicon has less jitter than the oppo?

How about answering Darin's St100 question that you've been avoiding as well?

I'll up it to $10 for each question.

And please, refrain from abusive remarks this time as it isn't doing your integrity any favors.

Nathan

Dr. Woody here,

Thank you Ken for your response. I will not question from this point on with you being an anesthesiologist. I just hope you'd take your work in the medical field more seriously versus as a reviewer here. I find it funny that you resort to stereophile magazine, how they said the same thing, and then Kal himself have to come here and said to please read his review before one draws his or her own conclusions, and for him to say to you that please don't use his name. I find it kind of amusing.

For Kal and then Shane from Hometheater Magazine to come here to comment, I guess part of the mission of your review article was accomplished. As any kind of press is good press to you and Jerry. If that is what you considered as success, then who are we to argue with you? All I know is, there have been nothing but bad press talking about your specific review. It seemed that no actual fact was put in your review as to why you truly felt the Lexicon was better. It's heavier, perhaps prettier, $3000 more, therefore it MUST be better. I guess all reviews are subjective one way or another. But this review is boarderline biased. To you, a doctor of medicine, said that this $3500 Lexicon is better than a $500 Oppo. I think the rest of us know better. And perhaps you should just stick to your money making career, instead of this "hobby" of yours.

But this just gives me that idea, that this is the beauty of the internet. everybody can have an opinion. an anesthesiologist can somehow post a review about audio gear, and since he is a doctor, and the site's name is called hometheaterreview, therefore it must be somewhat ok, and trustworthy. Unfortunately, that is not the case. I will try to set up my own site and review anesthesiology medical equipment from this point on, and I will let you know what is good and what is not good ok? The beauty of internet, gotta love it.

Time for me to read Kal's article....moving on.

Woody,

If you think I got into this based solely on my ability to spend money you would be misguided at best. I have been an avid audio fanatic since the mid 70's (yes, I am that old!) and have been a huge home theater fan since the mid 80's when Dolby Pro Logic first came out. I have owned a multitude of gear and always had a passion for the hobby. In fact I had considered getting a double major in acoustic physics and EE but due to one course only being offered every three years at Penn State (a requirement for AP) it would have taken me 7 years to graduate with these degrees so I followed my other passion, physiology and became an anesthesiologist though I did take many of the courses for my other interest.... Even going so far as to take three dimension vector calculus as an elective!

Throughout my time with AV gear I have been fortunate to own many different pieces and been able to appreciate them for what they are. I have personally owned 12 (twelve!) different Blu-ray players and still currently have six in my home. I have been through virtually every high end AV preamp over the past few years including the Meridian 861v4, Krell Evo 707, Anthem D2, D2 wARC, and D2v, Denon AVP A1HDCi, Classe' SSP 800 just to name the more memorable ones. I won't bother listing the speaker systems and amps I've been privy to own over the years but the list is equally extensive.

Is the Lexicon better? In my tests it did as I said, have slightly better black levels and color palette. I merely referenced Kal's latest as he found audible differences, also slight but present to further demonstrate that for whatever reason these two players seem not to perform identically. Is the difference worth the money? Only you, the consumer can decide. I for one really liked not having a plastic player in my reference rig!

KT

The BDP-83 is NOT made of plastic.

And if a player has excellent audio and video performance, I could give a rat's a*s what it is made of.

Ken Taraszka, MD posted: "FWIW if you read the newest Stereophile, Kal R. agrees with me, he found the sound slightly better from the Lexicon than the Oppo! Maybe you all want to go trash him and his magazine now! While he didn't make any comment on video, surely the small difference he heard in the audio section can, and likely does coincide with the video advantage I commented on."

Ken,

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see where you mentioned whether you were using analog output or HDMI output for the video. If HDMI, why did you make the above claim?

Also, not sure if it is fair to pick on the doctor part, but you put it out there and I expect an anesthesiologist to be pretty sure of things in their work since people can die when they aren't. But here you seem to be very careless. I hope you aren't this careless in your regular job as a doctor. If a company we'll call Acme had 2 different drugs that were similar, but different, would you refer to "the drug from Acme" for both drugs and say things like, "They agreed with me about the results for the Acme drug" when you were administering one of the drugs from Acme and they were administering a different (but similar) drug from Acme? You may see where I going with this and how it relates to how careless you were in claiming that Kal R. agreed with you. Fortunately, nobody is going to die here, but making a false claim because you were careless (or some other reason) doesn't help your credibility. Of course, agreeing that you were wrong to make that claim would restore some of it.

Thanks,
Darin

Jerry posted: "I am sure the readers who follow your cyber-attack on Lexicon would also like to know."

I'm not sure if you are playing a trick to try to pull in some help or if you are just not following the conversation very well, but given that I haven't attacked Lexicon at all your claim makes no sense whatsoever.

As far as asking me questions, you shouldn't expect answers to questions put to a person while you ignore questions they asked you. As I said before you asked me these questions that you seem to think I should answer:

"And if you want to ask me any other questions, go ahead. Just please answer my question about whether Jeremy had an actual Stewart ST100 for the ST100 review that you still have posted here (and whether this is normal for this site), since you've avoided that question here so far."

--Darin

Aw poopy pants - Darin.

Is it possible that I am busy running the second largest AV publication in all media on a new economy, stripped down staff and that I would rather talk with people who buy ads and help with the content here than deal with some like you who I don't respect whatsoever? Count on it.

My unsolicited advice to you is to get a life. Its a Blu-ray player. If you don't like it - don't buy it. You treat it like some matter of national importance.

Moreover, I spoke to Lexicon and they are selling the BD-30 at a record clip. The cyber flamers aren't effecting their bottom line at all. Oppo is doing well as we all know. Both of my clients are thriving. Both are spending money. I couldn't be more happy.

Jerry - you just avoided Darins ST100 question AGAIN!
Not to mention not answering my "less jitter" question either after being asked EIGHT times!.

What are you hiding?

I could care less about Darin and his question.

Your question was answered in my original post. If you don't like it TOO BAD. I owe you nothing. You are a cyber terrorist with nothing but time on your hands looking to waste mine.

You are not welcomed here anymore.

Good bye.

Jerry,

You may have the second largest AV publication (which I can't verify), but I do know that you're incredibly rude and unprofessional in dealing with people who don't agree with you. You resort to name calling.

Plus, your hyperbole is unbelieveable...I mean, come on, "cyber terrorist"?

According to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, cyberterrorism is any "premeditated, politically motivated attack against information, computer systems, computer programs, and data which results in violence against non-combatant targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents."

Wow, you must really think highly of yourself if you think true cyber-terrorists would waste one nanosecond on this site. Every other site I go to has people constantly discussing how you've succeeded in alienating yourself and your site during this whole debacle.

It's very telling that Shane and Ken had to post here in order to set the record straight. Your paranoia, smear campaigns, and baseless accusations of others just make you look bad.

I think the forum-like cyber attack on Lexicon warranted my comments. I think the gutless comments about Ken, my father, Ken's practice, Peter Tribeman and beyond are how these readers lost my respect.

As for our readership, the industry standard for measurement of online traffic is widely accepted at Google Analytics. If the Net Nerds, don't like it - I don't much care because the ad agencies, companies like Internet Brands (who bought AVRev.com from me nearly 2 years ago) and my clients do respect the numbers. Google has code on every page. Alexa, which is more of a sampling of web traffic, uses software that you have to install on your computer. Its simply not as accurate - not that we don't watch it. We do. Other good sources for information include Neilsen, Omniture and ABC for print.

Here is a list of what we have accomplished at HomeTheaterReview.com in 18 short months:
• HTR has gone from ZERO readers in 8/2008 to 313,000 monthly readers (source: Google Analytics)
• HTR has gone from a Google Page Rank zero to a PR5. The best sites in the business have between a PR5 and PR6. The few with PR6's have been around for more than a decade as "age of URL and or linkbacks" is a major factor in Google.
• HTR has created more reviews than any other AV publication in any media since its launch. All of that content is offered to readers for free.
• HTR has earned the business of some of the best clients in Consumer Electronics including Oppo, Lexicon and dozens more. Note: this was done during the worst recession since the Great Depression. More clients have signed on just this week despite a targeted attack on my clients by one of the cyber terrorists.

Respect is earned. The people trashing Lexicon are trying to ruin specialty AV with their geeky fighting, character attacks on innocent people/companies. I spend time answering phone calls and emails from readers who need help with their systems nearly every day. For those trying to kill off AV brands (you know the names) they have NOT earned my respect. They have earned being kicked off of this site. They are no longer welcomed here. Good riddance.

Jerry,

I give up. I should've seen earlier that you're just completely incapable of any humility or self-reflection. When people say things to you, you conveniently ignore what you don't like or doesn't fit your agenda. You respond, but you focus on the most trivial things, as if THAT is what we were asking about. You just don't get it at all. I pity you.

This reminds me of the guy Puck from The Real World San Francisco years back. Now THERE was a guy who was so full of himself that he would, when confronted with a million people telling him "you're a jerk", would just say, "no, you're all wrong...I'm the greatest guy ever". Talk about arrogant.

I truly wish I could convince every single person who reads your site to never visit it again. I know that is completely outside my power (see, *I* am able to admit my shortcomings...are you, Jerry?)

Just keep going through life completely ignorant of all the people around you who can't stand you and who you've slighted with your childish antics, Jerry. I've heard from at least a dozen people privately who are convinced you're out of control. There's a special (nasty) place in the afterlife dedicated to people like you.

I humbly ask everyone out there to ignore Jerry and ignore HTR from this moment on. It's the only way to make people like this to GO AWAY and stop wasting the world's oxygen.

P.S. I meant to say "Kal", not "Ken" in my post earlier.

Chris,

I am sorry you feel the way you do.

I have studied Dale Carnegie for years and have worked on inner-personal skills since I was in high school. With that said, I will not EVER stand by and let my writers, clients, friends and publications and brands get trashed. Its not what I stand for. I never will.

Hello Jerry

Why did you block me from posting?
Do you normally block people when you are wrong?

"You are a cyber terrorist"
How am I a terrorist? Ive been perfectly civil and just asked simple questions which you have refused to answer.

"You are not welcomed here anymore."
On what grounds?

Nathan Taylor

Hello,

I joined just so I could post my feelings about this whole thing here.

As a publication that posts subjective reviews you have to expect there to be things you will raise your brows too. This debate here has been drug out because it's so blatantly obvious what the Lexicon BD-30 really is. Anyone with an objective mindset would have arrived at the same conclusion given the same evidence. If HTR does a review on exotic cables you don't see a debate like this because many of us just accept that there are two sides and neither will ever agree on which is right about it.

The Lexicon may very well be quieter than the BD-83 or BD-83SE because of the beefed up external chassis. Jitter on both players are likely far below any discernible difference, blind testing can and has confirmed this. Don't debate it, the world isn't flat, and jitter is below human perceptive discernment. Whether or not the BD-30 has less jitter than the BD-83SE is irrelevant, however unlikely one even exists.

The Lexicon BD-30 isn't a rebadge of the BD-83SE, it's a rebadge of the BD-83. It's entirely possible that the BD-83SE with it's additional "audiophile" analog section may be taxing the power supply of the BD-83SE which is the same power supply in the BD-83. It's also possible the difference in picture that was seen was caused by the calibration by the reviewer or it could have also been a placebo effect. Since it would be difficult to replicate the reviewers conditions it's hard to say if there is a discernible difference or not.

Jerry keeps using the car argument, however it seems he knows enough about them to make an educated decision based on measured performance and what's under the hood. Well we are looking under the hood of this Lexicon. It's got a sleek exterior, I won't discredit that. That may be more than enough for some folks. A lot of people got the Cobra replicas, and I'm sure they cost more than the counterparts that used the same engines and drive trains. People buy them because they like the Cobra, the brand. People like the Lexicon brand and there will surely be plenty of people that buy the BD-30 and will be more than pleased with it.

This squabbling has gone far enough and asking Ken and Jerry repeated questions will not cover new ground. HTR appeals to subjectivists, let the subjectivists fuel our economy with the oodles of extra dollars they clearly don't know what to do with. I won't go and buy the BD-30 or likely any Lexicon gear in the near future, but I won't stand in the way of anyone that does, just as I won't stand in the way of Grandpa getting that Bose system.

I say give it a rest folks. I think we all get the point. Let this horse rest in peace.

-Seth=L [from: AudioHolics ]

Since for some reason it isn't showing in the post above I feel the need to add.

My views don't necessarily represent the views of the Audioholics publication, I am a mere member of their audio forums.

Finally the voice of reason. Thanks Seth L.

Firstly, I'll start by saying that this is my third username here - apparently HogPilot and Joseph T Camel hit a little too close to home on multiple occasions which explains the deleted posts and blocked user accounts.

In reply to Seth's commentary - the objective vs subjective debate has gone on for quite some time within the audio realm, and occurs to a lesser extend in the video realm now. Neither objectivism or subjectivism can exist in a vaccum, exclusive of the other; when that happens you lose real world perspective. Because of the very nature of the way in which our senses are designed and processed by our brains, humans - despite their marvelous abilities to detect an amazing range of sights and sounds - make very poor absolute measuring tools. That means that people can think they hear and see things that they don't. This is not a debatable point, and it is why scientifically rigorous objective measurement is key in the evaluation of any sort of complex electronic equipment. It keeps us rooted in reality, from bounding off into the realm of pure imagination and convincing ourselves of the untrue. In the same vein, subjective observation keeps us from getting lost in pure measurements and numbers, and in fact gives meaning and pertinence to them.

I understand that there are people out there who feel that objective measurement has no place in home audio or video. If that works for them in their personal lives, more power to them. However - and this brings me to my main point - I abhor the fact that the consumer electronics industry (or, more accurately, the high-end consumer electronics industry) has used the shroud of subjectivism to excuse just about any kind of behavior or statement. I'm not solely pointing the finger at the companies who sell this gear, either - a good portion of the blame rests with rags like this one who hide under the auspices of subjectivism and personal opinion in order to pass off paid advertisements as "reviews" when they're nothing of the sort. Of course Jerry is defending his reviewers and this site, because it all boils down to money - something he doesn't even deny. Money continually spent to advertise here by the same companies whose gear gets one glowing "review" after another. Its a monetary symbiotic relationship that benefits both parties at the expense of honesty, so why should either side admit the truth when they can say whatever they want and justify it under the shroud of subjectivity? We've gotten to the point where people tell us we're looking at a swan, even though it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and smells like a duck - but dammit, it's a swan because that's what they truly believe and they're sticking to it.

Everyone has an opinion - some of which are irrationally formed because we're human and we're not perfect. However it's entirely different to knowingly push dishonesty onto people under the guise of subjectivism in the name of making a buck. I'm sure guys like Jerry use that human ability to convince themselves that they're really not doing anything wrong; unfortunately for him, mental fantasies don't equate to external realities, nor are people as dumb or gullible as he must think that they are.

It's not that I don't agree with you, but I think that you've reached the people you are going to reach. You've made your point quite clear. I don't believe continuing to badger Ken and Jerry (Ben & Jerry?) is going to do anymore than it already has. I'm pretty sure it's quite obvious to onlookers what has transpired, what is, and what will be.

Its funny, I just posted a comment elsewhere on this site about how ridiculous it is to review and actually recommend a TWO channel CD player that sells for $15,000 and I cited the blatant price gouging for this BluRay by Lexicon as another example without even knowing this "debate" was being conducted here. I just finished reading every posting.

I reiterate that if publications would stop reviewing this idiotically priced products (much less recommending them, what a joke) and if people had enough brains and did enough research to stop buying them then they would not exist anymore. I'm sure that the main motivation, like a lot of things, comes down to money. The manufacturers obviously rake it in. I would be sure that the dealer markup is pretty large as well, given how much the prices are artificially jacked up so they don't have to move a big quantity to make a big profit. Of course the manufacturers can afford a big fat advertising budget as well because of the margins, so why would a publication bite the hand that feeds it?

I also agree that acting like having a standard that mandates absolutely no verifiable measurements when it comes to reviewing electronics is borderline retarded. Its true that you can't measure the openness of the sound or subjective things like that, but there are a lot of things that you CAN and SHOULD measure for the benefit of your readers. Not to do so strikes me as lazy as well. I guess it means that anyone can write a review for you with no measurement equipment required, just having eyes and ears means you are qualified to be an expert reviewer, so that does cut down on overhead. Back to a car analogy, should we trust an auto review with no performance measurements or any kind? Something like: "This car drives better than any other car, that is my review" would that hold a lot of water? And the size of the component chassis doesn't count as a measurement.

Actually the car industry has put a lot of pressure on a couple of the high end brands to eliminate these ludicrously high prices. You can get a 19 speaker/450 watt Mark Levinson system in a Lexus for $2000 and a 19 speaker/1300 watt Bang & Olufsen system in an Audi for $6000. See how far those amounts will get you in home audio equipment from those brands. So for that I say BRAVO Lexus and Audi, let's hope that kind of pricing catches on.

Unfortunately there will always be greed and there will always be knuckleheads with more money than sense. I just wish that that those people would stop wasting the rest of the "regular people's" time with these overpriced status symbols. Great, you bought Goldmund, good for you, now shuddup and go pat yourself on the back until your arm breaks. Maybe we need an impartial publication for home electronics reviews with a mantra like Consumer Reports, NO advertising.

It would be nice if you had the balls here to modify your review to add something in BOLD letters right at the top to indicate that the Lexicon unit is just a repackaged $500 Oppo unit with a $3000 case around it (which does make it quieter, but so would a $5 blanket) but it seems like you are going to insist that people have to waste MORE time actually noticing the comments at the bottom of the page and wading through at least some of them to discover that FACT.

Wow. I came this way long after-the-fact due to a new posting on a site that referenced this Lexicon/Oppo debate and the question of the reliability/usefulness of THX certification'.

Jerry, Andrew, and Ken (or is it "Dr Ken"): It is amazing the length to which you have gone on to defend a review that doesn't have the decency (even after 4 months' passing of time) to be amended with a comment like "unconfirmed software & casing differences aside, the Lexicon is mechanically the same thing for $3000 more".

But, I have to say, I think the most telling point (even atop all that has already been said in this long, humorous thread) ...is that I think Ken has already stated which unit he ACTUALLY chose.

In his post above (on February 9, 2010 6:26 PM), Ken states that: "...FWIW I got NOTHING from Lexicon nor Oppo, I bought an Oppo BD-83SE, got the NuForce edition for review, and the Lexicon came in for review as well, so it is going back with NO, ZERO, NIL in my pocket. The Lexicon is awaiting UPS, and the NuForce will go back once I am done reviewing it..."

So, contrary to the original review (by Ken) in which he referred to the Lexicon and concluded, "I am keeping this one," --the only one we obviously know that he has "kept" is the Oppo BD-83 SE. !! (He bought an 83 SE, had received a manufacturer demo of the 83 SE, and the Lexicon demo. The 83 SE demo & the Lexicon demo went back, leaving him the owner of the 83 SE he had already claimed in the review that *he himself purchased*.)

--Maybe that's because Ken's not stupid: he and the rest of you guys I'm sure had the 'inside scoop' going into this. You probably had discussions with the manufacturers, as you claim ... and when Ken realized he could buy for himself *the improved model* of the $3500 Lexicon (or is it, the $500 Oppo?) for $900, he whipped the credit card out immediately.

Shame he couldn't make the same recommendation for others as the choice he made for himself. ;-)

...BTW, This whole (interesting) mess brings question to my mind about the existence of the 83 SE itself. Funny, months back I had thought it 'odd' that Oppo was releasing a slightly-revamped model so soon after the obviously-successful 83 first iteration. --Could it be that they knew the firestorm brewing, because they had no control over what they knew their 'partner' Lexicon was about to do in releasing a straight clone for $3000 more? Having an "83 SE" unit gives a nice 'opt out' around the direct-comparison between an Oppo 83 and the Lexicon 30. ...You know: you can just compare the 83 *SE* against the Lexicon 30 instead and say, "Hey, there's different components in there!"

I can't fully speak for Ken but I think is recently completed divorce effected why he bought the Oppo over the Lexicon. I think he also liquidated his Krell 707 to pay his lovely Ex-wife off and regain his freedom.

As for him being a Dr. in quotes - he is an actual doctor. Medical school and everything. No need for quotes.

You are invited to buy whatever player you like. We love the Oppo as well as the Lexicon. For those who want the higher build quality, the support that comes from a top level dealer etc... the Lexicon is for you and at a premium price. As I type now I am staying at The Four Seasons in Santa Barbara. Are there cheaper hotels that offer the same perfect weather, a pool and walking distance attractions for less money? Yes, but I like the small details and I am willing to pay for them from time to time.

I find it so funny that people get twisted up in a knot over this issue when repackaging an AV product with a few changes (sometimes) is common practice yet it was Lexicon who takes the beating for this. Should they have changed the power supply and DACs? Without question. And they know it. They just wanted a good player that they could quickly plug into their distribution channel and sell with margin and warranty and Lexicon build quality. For those looking for value first and who are willing to shop online - buy the Oppo. Ken says as much in the review and I am saying it too. Either way - you win.

Well, you finally seem to be admitting, without admitting the admission, that Lexicon made nothing but cosmetic changes to the Oppo for their three grand cut.

Jerry, I suggest that you, Ken, and anyone else still reading this far, read what one of your competitors said about this affair:

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/mutton_in_wolfs_clothing/index.html

especially the last couple of paragraphs.

Now think about which site I am most likely to trust for reviews, and why.